Ever been intrigued by the world of podcasting and how it can be harnessed to tell authentic stories while growing brands? Prepare for an eye-opening journey as guest host Dr. Briana Barner, an Assistant Professor of Black Podcast Studies at the University of Maryland, interviews Ona Oghogho, founder of the BlackPod Collective. Ona shares her unique journeys into podcasting as not only a host but curator of community.
We explore how podcasting transcends beyond just producing initial episodes, diving into the intricacies of marketing, distribution, and consistent growth. With Ona's journey of owning a studio and the creation of a space for underrepresented Black podcasters, we unravel the importance of representation and sustainability in the podcast industry. We also discuss strategies for successful podcasting, the value of a podcast as a marketing tool, and the art of monetizing it.
Ever been intrigued by the world of podcasting and how it can be harnessed to tell authentic stories while growing brands? Prepare for an eye-opening journey as guest host Dr. Briana Barner, an Assistant Professor of Black Podcast Studies at the University of Maryland, interviews Ona Oghogho, founder of the BlackPod Collective. Ona shares her unique journeys into podcasting as not only a host but curator of community.
We explore how podcasting transcends beyond just producing initial episodes, diving into the intricacies of marketing, distribution, and consistent growth. With Ona's journey of owning a studio and the creation of a space for underrepresented Black podcasters, we unravel the importance of representation and sustainability in the podcast industry. We also discuss strategies for successful podcasting, the value of a podcast as a marketing tool, and the art of monetizing it.
What's good everyone? I'm Langston Clark, founder, and organizer of Entrepreneurial Appetite, a series of events dedicated to building community, promoting intellectualism and supporting black businesses. Today, we feature a conversation between our special guest, Dr. Briana Barner, an assistant professor no longer a postdoctoral fellow of Black Podcast Studies in the Department of Communication at the University of Maryland, and Ona Oghgho, founder of the Blk Pod Collective and CEO of Adode Media.
Briana Barner:So nice to meet you. I just want to say I love your glasses. They look amazing. I'm so excited to be having this conversation with you. I love talking about all things Black Podcasts, so I'm super excited for this conversation. My first question for you is do you remember the very first podcast that you listened to? Do you remember how you found it and do you remember what attracted you to it?
Ona Oghogho:I think the very first podcast I listened to was probably Black Girls Pod with Gia, peppers, scotty, and I want to say I found it through a Google search. I don't think I was looking for podcasting, if I'm being honest. I was looking for something else. What I was looking for, I have no clue, and I think they probably may have talked about a topic.
Ona Oghogho:I think I was doing research for something and they talked about a topic and I just was like, oh, it came up in my Google search and I was like, well, this might be easier than reading something. So I actually was like, oh, let me just listen to it and remember that it was like trying to come out, like it was like, gave me all these apps I could listen to it on. And I was like, oh wait, I could listen to this in the car. Oh, let's say less. And it just kind of took off from there and I just have been an avid listener not as much for leisure anymore, because it's what I do for a living, but it just took off from there and that was back in end of 2018.
Briana Barner:Wow, okay, so you're like an OG podcast listener. Okay, I love it. I love it. Oh girl, I wouldn't say that's OG at all, but I guess Well, yeah, I can see why you would say that I think I started listening in 2016. My first was the read, and I've just been addicted to it. So can you tell us about your journey in podcasting and what kind of got you started on this here podcast journey?
Ona Oghogho:Honestly, it's still wild to me how I got started in podcasting. So, really, what? That was 2018,. I discovered my first podcast In 2019, february.
Ona Oghogho:I was laid off from what I thought was my dream job and at the time I didn't really know what I wanted to do next. But I got a good severance package and I knew I wanted to take a break, been working since I was 16. I was like you know what? Let's use this opportunity to really explore who am I as the individual, and I decided to start a podcast because that's the first step of self exploration who I would shoot? And I decided to start a podcast mainly because of the fact that I wanted to talk to other women who had decided to leave corporate, who had made great strides in corporate, because I think it's different to leave a field that you've ascended really well in, like you were making good money, than it is to leave a field that you're just like completely you hate. And I wanted to talk to women who had ascended to a certain level in their corporate journeys and then decided to just like tap out of that and create their own lane. And so I launched a podcast called fierce ass boss.
Briana Barner:Yes, title, I love that.
Ona Oghogho:I said Lord, help me. And because I was going against everything, and my mother was like, must you say ass? And I'm like, yes, yes, I must. And it was my like rebellion. And I initially started this podcast with the hopes of like getting inspiration for what I might want to do next or figuring out how to go about like determining if this was the right path for me. Instead, what ended up happening is I enjoyed the process of the podcast, like it just intrigued me.
Ona Oghogho:I ended up just kind of going down a rabbit hole. I'm an avid researcher, so the moment like I get my hands on something and I say I'm interested in it, forget about it. I'm digging. I'm going to five different sites a day and I was unemployed there's time. I ended up saying to a girlfriend who had a podcast that hey, I wish there was like an organization or black people who had podcasts so we can come together, network, learn and grow, because I was seeing the top charts didn't have us. When I went to like meet and greets, I didn't see people that looked like me. Different podcasts, events, conferences Once again, nobody looked like me. And so I just was like somebody should do this and she was like why don't you do it? And I'm like girl.
Langston Clark :I just said I need to help.
Ona Oghogho:Why would I be the one putting together a group when I don't know what I'm doing? She's like well, technically, you're good at pulling people together, so I feel like this could work and that's what Burst Black Pod Collective and it's just been up from there.
Briana Barner:I love that. I love that journey, like if you don't see something, make it yourself. I absolutely love that. So that was. You said 2019, right when you first started the collective case. So right before, though before times. So what did the podcast landscape look like at that point, before the pandemic started, and specifically for Black podcasters?
Ona Oghogho:I think we were hungry for information and we were hungry for connection, but we just weren't seeing it from us.
Ona Oghogho:Everyone else wanted a piece of us as the best way I can describe it and that they wanted us to come to their events.
Ona Oghogho:They wanted to basically have the diversity in their conference, within their circles, to say that they checked off a box, but it wasn't a true like welcoming. It wasn't a true like oh, we genuinely care about your interest and what you need. And so many people were grabbing at I won't even say grabbing, because in 2019, a lot of people kind of ignored us. They just wanted us to check off a box, but they didn't actually like include us in things. It wasn't until after George Floyd and just all the other things that kind of came to be that you started seeing more people who actually cared about what we had going on and I do air quotes for those who are listening because it's not truly caring but for us as a community back in 2019, we were very adamant about making names for ourselves and creating space. It wasn't as popular, but for those who were genuinely doing it, it wasn't for money, it wasn't for notoriety, it was for the art of actual audio storytelling and I miss that at times.
Briana Barner:That's interesting that you say that. So now we're in the, I guess the aftertimes not at the. Pandemic is quote unquote over. So how do you think that podcast thing has shifted? Or, black podcaster, you think it's shifted where we are out there more? Do you think that it's kind of like about the same as it was before the pandemic started?
Ona Oghogho:I think we are out there a lot more, but maybe not in the ways that we should be. There's a lot of people starting podcasts, which I think is absolutely amazing. Whenever people are like do you think there's too many podcasts out there? And I'm like do you think there's too many books out there? Nobody says that it's the same concept, and so I think that piece is really great and I'm seeing more black creators step into this field, but I'm seeing a lack of longevity.
Ona Oghogho:Most people don't make it past episode four, and that's because of the fact that a lot of people think that the starting of the podcast is the hard part Actuality. That's actually the easiest part of podcasting. This is a podcast At a computer. I have a microphone that costs me maybe 60 bucks and it's my at home microphone, and that's the easy portion. It's the marketing, the distribution and the week after week staying on top of all the things that go into it and figuring out how to grow it, and so I think we are in the space more, but I do think we're not in the space for the right reasons. The number one questions when people are launching a podcast, if they ask me, is how soon do you think I can make money off of this and I'm like I'm sorry what Do you have?
Ona Oghogho:an audience already Like do you already have?
Ona Oghogho:like a newsletter and they're like no, I have no social media presence. I mean, for this thing that I'm launching today, that currently only has five people that listen to it, and it's just like get from around here and it's like you can't say that. But that's just the truth of the situation, and so I think we're growing because I think that representation matters and it's important to see us in the space. I just would love to see more thought go into the topics that we're talking about. I would love to see less sensationalism. I would love to see more true audio storytelling and I love to see like us doing it just for the fun, like we used to.
Briana Barner:That is one of the most frustrating things for me as just a fan of podcasts. It's like when I really get into a show, I don't make with this again Y'all haven't updated this in a while or like I'm really getting into it, it's like, oh, this episode is from 2021. You know, like what happened, like where'd you go? And that is frustrating. And I understand that there's labor involved in making podcasts. But you're right, though, on Jebedee is important, because if I know that you say you're putting out an episode on Thursdays and it's Wednesday of the fall, when we can, your show is not out. If you do that a couple of times, you probably lost me as a fan, unfortunately, which sucks by best of truth.
Ona Oghogho:And it's one of those things where people are like but life happens, and I'm like and you have the plan for life. So that's why everybody keeps doing these weekly podcasts for example, everybody in their mom and I'm like can your life sustain a weekly podcast? Yeah, yeah, maybe your life can sustain a biweekly. Maybe you need to batch record and just record content ahead of time, but everybody is doing about current events, so you can't batch record because we're all talking about current events. And then what I batch recorded back in June all the way through September because I knew my busy season was coming up, and a lot of people just don't think through those type of things when they're starting their podcast of what makes the most sense and they don't think about the longevity.
Briana Barner:So can you say a little bit more about what your batch recording process looks like? Because that sounds really intense, and so I want to know more about what that looks like for you.
Ona Oghogho:I was coerced into launching a podcast. So I have a podcast called the podcast trapper and it's basically where I'm sharing my individual experiences as a podcast producer, community builder and a vet curator. So I talk about different things in the podcast space. I give how to instructions, just little things like that. And for me I said I would not launch the podcast until I had over 100 ideas in the system that I utilize to manage all the things. And so each time it's time to record, we schedule a day, and that's typically on a Saturday. One Saturday month.
Ona Oghogho:We typically was scheduled to batch record and normally it's like four episodes, but at the time I was looking to move my studio, so just a lot going on Sounds like OK, let's go ahead and batch record like 12 to 16 episodes so that this way there's like really some buffer Once those topics are kind of put in place. I do a quick like four bullet point outline for each topic and then it's kind of like a run of show is given to the team. So it's scheduled with our photographer on team, our audio engineer and videographer, so those two people plus myself, and most of my episodes are being by myself. But I think that last time we did with two guests, and so it's also the coordination with the guest. From there. It's really a thing of like keeping a tight schedule. So each topic I go ahead and indicate the night before this is the outfit we're wearing for that topic, so that this way it's clear that, ok, this is what we're recording. Next I try to knock out the solo episodes after the guest, because the room has to be flipped around and it's really just a coming in. We start off with photos, so I literally change choice Each time, changing to a different outfits. Our photographer can get the images for the thumbnails for YouTube and then she leaves and then I change again so that this way we can record the actual episodes themselves.
Ona Oghogho:And we are there typically from like 8 AM, when makeup starts at 8 or 9. Get my makeup done and then from there it's typically there till 9 at night and I might take a snap break if they allow me. It's intense, but I like doing that work on the front end because since then we've moved to the studio, we have three large clients right now, so I don't have the mental capacity, honestly, to focus in on the actual podcast and my conference is coming up, it's all these things, so I prefer that. Oh, I know that we are good to September, even though I'm like I think we probably need to record a little bit. We're about to be out and they're like no, I'm like I think we need to. I own a studio. You would think it's easier, but for me it's like OK, we have to find the time.
Briana Barner:Yeah, that is very interesting, but that makes a lot of sense and so that way you can focus on other things and you can still have that consistent content. So that makes a lot of sense. All right, listeners, hope you are Key and answer that, because that makes a lot of sense. So I wanted to shift and ask you about the Blackpaw Collective and so my first question is how do you define a Black podcast of Black podcasters and like, how do you determine, I guess, like, who is I don't want to say like who can be a part of it, but like, what are the boundaries that you have when you think of the Black podcasters that are part of your collective?
Ona Oghogho:Most definitely. So I will say this because somebody asked me before that, like, have you had any issues with non black people trying to join? And I oddly have not. I think people really do respect the space and we just haven't had that issue. To me, a black podcaster is anyone who is of black descent in any capacity. So if your mom is white and your dad is black, you're black.
Langston Clark :Like it's just that simple.
Ona Oghogho:So it's anyone who identifies as black and I don't just mean identifies and like oh, my friends are black, no, like actually a black person who is creating content. Because we have podcast producers in the organization who don't have a podcast of their own but they produce three or four other shows for other people, so they're welcome into the community. Because for the longest I didn't have a podcast. So I started fierce ass boss and black pod collective started being so much work and taking off that I did not have the capacity for fierce ass boss and I send out it. So for three, four years, three years I didn't have a podcast. I just launched the podcast rapper in January of this year, so before that I myself was not an actual podcaster but I helped other people with their podcast, and so it's one of those things where I believe that the people behind the scenes are just as important as those who are on the microphone. So audio engineers, va's, all of those people we have a variety of people who are within the community in that capacity.
Briana Barner:So, in terms of their members, your collective, what are some of the issues or concerns that they have as black people within the podcast industry that you've seen kind of like have to come up frequently? For them, it's always the money.
Ona Oghogho:So for the community, it's always going to be the money. It is the biggest pain point for most people because of the fact that a lot of people aren't trying to make money from their podcast. A lot of them just want the money to sustain this, because a lot of podcasters are doing everything themselves. So these large production shows where they have an audio engineer, a videographer, a sound designer, a graphic designer, a show note writer, a newsletter writer, a marketing person, a social media For a lot of podcasters all of those roles are just an after a while it can become very overwhelming, and that's why the longevity is an issue, because when you're doing all things, it never fails. After a while you will burn out. After a while you will be tired, like that's you had in the beginning will slowly die, especially because you're not making money off of something and everybody's like oh, your passion should feel you. Your passion makes you no money and it requires you to show up every week. Maybe that's not a passion, that is a side job.
Ona Oghogho:And it's a volunteer side job because you're working for free and so it becomes very daunting. So a lot of the community members are really just looking to make money to keep this passion alive, to be able to pay somebody to do it, not even to pay themselves. And it makes me sad at times because of the fact that the biggest thing is they see their counterparts. I hear people are like I quit my job after my first season and now I do this full time. And it's like what you mean? We've been doing this for five years. What are you talking about?
Ona Oghogho:And it's like that becomes very discouraging for a lot of black creators. And so that's number one on the list. Number two, I would say, is the marketing figuring out and learning how to market. To me, it's funny how, like, you start a podcast and in essence, you have to learn 50,000 skills. You have to be a marketer or social media person, copywriter, and it's like I did not, like I don't know how to do any of this, and so after a while that becomes very daunting, because it's all the things you have to know how to do to keep this alive, and if you don't know how to do it, you have to have the money to fund it. It's like a yo-yo effect, or that's not what I meant. It's that thing that it does the thing.
Briana Barner:Oh, a scale.
Ona Oghogho:Thank you, I was like something. Hopefully somebody will pick up on what I'm putting down.
Briana Barner:That makes sense. I think that the longevity piece is key because it's really unfortunate, because the stories that I've heard on podcasts and just the content has been really, really fantastic. That's what drew me to it. But, like I said, as a fan, I can also understand the labor that goes into it and for the podcast that do come week after week after week, I'm like I know that there's a lot in that and like they'll talk about like yeah, I'm recording this at midnight because the kids are asleep and I'm finally off work and that is something that I can already. So this is that and there'd be sustain. You can sustain that and then we lose really great content with that.
Briana Barner:So I can understand that as the person who's doing it and I can understand as a fan. That is discouraging. So the good thing is that I can go back and listen to the episodes that they do have and be like whenever they do. From back, I can listen to new episodes.
Briana Barner:But, yeah, I definitely can understand the labor because I think that as fans, we see the finished product, but we don't see the behind the scenes stuff. We don't see everything that comes into it. So even like now we are recording this episode, but Langston is still going to have to do a lot of stuff behind the scenes before the episode comes out. And, like you said, like didn't the social media stuff together, like there's all these different steps that, as a fan, we just like, ok, cool, the episode just dropped on Apple Podcasts but we didn't see all of the stuff, all the extra steps that you all put into it to make it happen. And so, speaking of like podcasting in general, can you tell us more about your conference coming up, because I know that that's going to be super dope.
Ona Oghogho:So the conference is one of those things you see at second deep breath real quick. There's a lot of work, but I always say it's a labor of love. So I launched that honestly, because the community kept saying like, hey, we need more. So we host monthly workshops and they're like these workshops that we host on a monthly basis and they could be really great if we could basically bring them all together under one day on these various topics. And I said, ok, it was during COVID and there wasn't really was like we can meet in person, let's take a look at it. So we did a virtual one in 2020 and, mind you, black Park Collective just became a thing in 2019 and I was still figuring out, but we had 800 people join us virtually. Then the next year, we had 1300 people join us virtually and we were like, ok, let's bring this in person, 2022. Last year, we had a little bit over 400 people hit Atlanta over Memorial Day weekend and I felt proud with that.
Briana Barner:So, as we get your you should feel proud about that. That's amazing.
Ona Oghogho:At this year. We're gearing up. It is taking place September 30th and October 1st here in Atlanta, georgia again, and I like for the focus to be about like how to grow and market. Of course, we'll still have tracks and information sessions about how to start a podcast, but it's really going to be focused on marketing and growth and automation, as well as getting a job in the industry. So for me, I've been able to leverage my skill sets, leverage what I've built to build my own business that has everything from audio, engineering, branding, design, all the things with podcasts, and I want more people, especially our people, to recognize that your passion doesn't just always have to be this side thing. If your creativity is something that you want to do full time, there are options for that, and everybody is not meant to be an entrepreneur. Let me be very clear.
Langston Clark :Hey everyone, Thank you again for your support of entrepreneurial appetite. Beginning this season, we are inviting our listeners to support the show through our Patreon website. The founding 55 patrons will get live access to our monthly discussions for only $5 a month. Your support will help us hire an intern or freelancer to help with the production of the show. Of course, you can also support us by giving us five stars, leaving a positive comment or sharing the show with a few friends. Thank you for your continued support.
Ona Oghogho:But if that means you want to work for someone, so the I hearts, the Spotify and so on and so forth. I want the conference to be that condo To introduce you to some of those people, introduce you to some of that work in those fields. And so for me it's important to make sure that our community doesn't just consistently get left behind in the creative spaces, because oftentimes we're taught to like go to school, get a good job, but very rarely are we empowered to search and go after creative roles, because our family, what they know, is that creativity like I'm Nigerian too, so it's like what money is your good to be put on?
Ona Oghogho:this but that's in their mind, that's all they know, and so it carries down. Because even for me, I was like I am going to be pouring on this Like you have those moments where it's like I think it might be right, and so I want more of our community recognized like there's more out there than a nine to five. There are creative roles that allow for you to tap into your creativity, and when I see the amazing things that we are creating as independent creators, I can only imagine if they're able to focus that energy full time into something that they really hear about. So that's a huge thing that I'm champion just in the podcast and creative space as a whole is wanting more of us to really go after what we're passionate about. And I get it. People have different responsibilities and lives and all those things, but I want the conference to be at least that glimmer of light to show you what's possible. Thank you.
Briana Barner:So what advice would you have to someone who is interested in starting a podcast and, let's say, before the year it's not like. What advice would you have for them?
Ona Oghogho:I think starting a podcast for fun is fine. Have little to no expectations. If it's just for fun, there's nothing wrong with that. So don't waste money. And yes, I own a studio, so this is probably gonna be like oh my god, you don't want us to come to your studio. No, it's not that. I just don't like for people to waste money Because, like, whenever people come into the studio, I sometimes I'm like you know, you can have this conversation at home Like I could recommend some mics to you that are literally really great, that work really well, and they're like you don't want us to come back. No, it's not that. I just know if I have episodes, you're gonna be done and you would have spent like thousands of dollars with me. I'm not in the business of just taking people's money. So I think the first thing is recognize what your why is for having the podcast. If it is just for fun, by all means go forth, be great and prosper. There's nothing wrong with that and I actually think that's great. I like the fact that my grandkids one day will hear my voice and be like oh, that's grandma. I'll be like excuse you, I used to be young and hip and cute, don't do me. They're like is that a nose ring? Yes, baby, I like that. I can say that, and that to me is important. Like, even for me, one of my most memorable episodes that I've done on my podcast was having my parents on. That, to me, was more important than any episode I ever do, because when they're not here, I have their voice, I have their image, and so I want more of us to think about it in that way.
Ona Oghogho:Now, if you know you want to start your podcast and it has nothing to do with fun, you want this to be a thing. I would recommend you start your podcast with a brand meaning I'm very big on, as in podcasting, as your main marketing funnel, your content generator for your business. So, if you have a business, utilize your podcast to drive people to that business and think about what that looks like. So have a strategy. Like at a no day, we have clients. I'll use real talk, atlanta, for example. There are four real estate agents who now get like 40% of their business from their podcast.
Ona Oghogho:When they first came to me, though, they wanted to have a podcast like kind of like real house laws of Atlanta, just talking about all the things, and I said, okay, so how are you making money off of this? If you're paying me thousands of dollars, how are you gonna make money? And they're like perkets. I'm like what do you mean? They're like we can't get sponsors. I'm like, I mean, you do whatever you want. I, realistically, how are you going to make money off of this in a year's time?
Ona Oghogho:Their podcast has like thousands of downloads, but that's not the piece that matters, because they're not having to find sponsors and search and chase people down. No, instead, they have their target client who finds them. From this podcast, they indicate who they want to work with, based off of them showcasing their personalities, and that matters. And so for me, as much as I love the art of storytelling, I also recognize that everybody is not a good storyteller. Everybody did not go to school for journalism, and so if you're looking to start a podcast the end of this year, look at how you can get a return on your investment. That could just be time investment in a much more succinct manner. And if you have a larger arching brand, that is your better bet, and so utilize it as a your content funnel for your business or your overall brand is a better strategy If you are really trying to kind of go forth and create a business and a brand around your show.
Briana Barner:Excellent advice. We talked about owning your own studio. Can you tell us a little bit more about like what that process was like and what like you to want to have your own studio?
Ona Oghogho:The Lord, nothing but the Lord. Honestly, in 2019, when I Decided to start my collective as crazy as this always sounds to people at the same time wanted a studio. I started fierce as boss, and finding a space to record from back in 2019 was very hard, like the first place I recorded from. I felt like I was in a dungeon, that I made it kidnapped, all because I was recording a podcast, and I was just like, is it worth it? And so I didn't see that out there. So, for me, I had always said that I wanted a studio, and so from 2019 to what?
Ona Oghogho:2021, when I opened the studio at a storage unit that I literally was putting stuff away in, people didn't understand why I own the storage unit, but I said, look, this is on sale. Black Friday was my favorite time. I'm going to buy what I need now so that this way, when God tells me it is time, it is time for me to move forward. I believe when God gives me a vision, my job is to get ready for when he says go, because I'll never want him to say go and I'm like, but I don't have it, lord, wait, yeah, I like wait a minute.
Ona Oghogho:He's like I told you this five years ago what is wrong with you? And I'm like I don't know right. So that was the beginning of this. And in 2021, adore Media is, first and foremost, a production agency. So at that time, I had been producing shows and we got the contract with Black Effect as they were launching and I said you know what, run it up, let's do it. And that's how I came into my first studio, which was a 1500 square foot space in Weston, atlanta. Since then, we moved from that space into a space in Buckhead which was 900 square feet, entirely too small, and we recently expanded again to a 1900 square foot space by Cumberland Mall for those who might be familiar with Atlanta so by the truest park area and everything. And we have four or five different studio spaces that have a different look, and it has truly been a blessing, a journey.
Ona Oghogho:And On the flip side because I always like to give practical advice of how did I afford this? Because that's the first thing people usually are like Okay, that's nice that the Lord gave you his vision, but baby, how did you do? I like to be realistic. The one thing I always remind people of is I do not have kids. I don't have a husband. The only person I am responsible for is me. That means I'm able to set my life up in a certain way and not sleep. Is that healthy? No. But when I purchased my home what? Nine years ago? It's three stories. I have always rented out the bottom level of my house. I do not have a mortgage, I do not have living expenses because the bottom level of this home pays for my life. So I always tell people think of, if you didn't have rent, if you didn't have your water bill, your electricity, all of those bills what would that be able to afford you in life? And that's what I've been blessed to have for the past nine years. That coupled with, remember, I said I was laid off and I started Blackpaw Collective.
Ona Oghogho:It was in 2020 that I realized I think we don't have to go back to work to pay for this new vision we have. Yeah, I put myself on a timeline. That's okay. I'm gonna go back to work for a year. I think I made it nine months, but I said I'm gonna go back to work for a year so that this way I could have the funds to invest.
Ona Oghogho:Like the marketing, I wanted an official branding because maybe I made everything in Canada crazy and I wanted to pay for that. So in 2020 went back to work and Worked two jobs. So I was working two jobs and in February of 2021 is when I left the first job and in July I left that second job. So imagine working two jobs, no kids, no household expenses. I was saving my money like nobody's business. So by the time I left my job, I had a little over twenty to thirty thousand dollars to be able to do this. So I always like to give people the yes, my faith led me, but also my hard work and using sweat equity, and I basically sold my time for money.
Briana Barner:Hey, I really appreciate the transparency. I'm sure the listeners will too, and so kind of keeping one that same thread, what were some of the Challenges that you face? Because I mean you definitely shared the successes and clearly the brand is flourishing, but where some of the challenges that you faced throughout this process?
Ona Oghogho:which brand? There's three of them.
Langston Clark :Okay, I'll break it down.
Ona Oghogho:Okay, black pod collective and black pod festival. I would say the biggest challenge there is that people want us to be a part of things. They want to say they support us, they want to speak at the conference, they want to be a part of it, but they don't want to give us money. So, whereas they are dropping forty, fifty thousand dollars at large conferences that are white led, they want to be able to come and show up and be on stage and do all the things at our black conference, but for free. And it is very challenging and very insulting Because in one breath you're, you love everything I've built and it's like, well, cut me a check and get off my phone.
Ona Oghogho:And it's always this notion of like how can we partner together? And it's like give me money, no, no, no. How can we partner to help you give me money, but we want to help you money, money, pay me, or they want to pick my brain and like what is the issues that black creators are facing so we can help fix it. And then that's a consultation, and so it's the Valuing the crowd that as an organization that we can bring, but not wanting to pay for that, and that's very taxing to build something and know how amazing it is and see the impact it has for the community, but struggle to keep it alive because of the funding, and so that's in the Black Pod Collective and Black Pod Festival side, and along with that on the Black Pod Collective side is I'm seeing a shift in our community and just creators as a whole. We are moving away from where people are connectively trying to help each other and instead moving more towards where a lot of people just want information given to them, so people are no longer trying to like.
Ona Oghogho:When I started this organization, it was a lot of people wanted to be in community. People wanted to like help others. Now it's a lot of just people. Well, tell me how I can get rich, and it's like I'm not even rich. How am I going to tell you Like, once I figure it out, then let me try and then, if it worked, I'll let you know.
Ona Oghogho:So that's that piece. On a Dode Media side, opening a studio is now for the faint of heart, baby. We've seen where I think social media is the devil, but it's a necessary evil. But it has this tendency to like. I see so many people creating content spaces now, like I remember when I opened the studio back in 2021, we didn't have a lot of spaces and as much as I'm excited for people, but the amount of people I see opening spaces and in six months it closes down Because social media has people thinking all you have to do is open it and the people woke up no, they won't.
Ona Oghogho:That's how it works. And so I say the challenge there is I had to learn how to market a brick and mortar. That's not something I knew how to do. I had built an online community and I knew how to kind of attract in that way, bringing people from online to a physical space. Baby, I had to flex every muscle and I remember in the beginning, in 2021, we opened in October. I remember in 2022, like I'm very transparent Our first studio space was 1500 square feet.
Ona Oghogho:I was paying $3,000 a month and I said, okay, hold on. Now we may have to downsize a little bit, and so we went from a 1500 square feet to a 910 square foot space and we downsized from $3,000 to $2,000 a month. But that extra $1,000, I invested it into marketing. I put that into marketing for that whole time. So we moved in October and that was intentional because I realized I had spent all my money on rent, that I didn't have anything left to market, and so that's the big thing I'll tell people is that you may be able to afford the space, but make sure you can also afford to market and attract people to it, because social media marketing won't always cut it.
Ona Oghogho:Google analytics, youtube ads the ads is really what brings people in and ads cost money. And then you got the gurus who want to charge you $5,000 just to teach you how to run ads. So you don't need them, just let you know you too, university. So those are just some of the challenges, and I'm happy I didn't let my ego get in the way of like, okay, let's step back for a second, because that was in October and by June of this year we moved into the larger space and it's flourishing and all the things. So it's okay to take that step back to propel you forward.
Briana Barner:I really appreciate your transparency and I'm sure that the listeners will too, and, as we kind of wrap up, I wanted to know what's next for you and like what's kind of like on your game plan and that for the next five years.
Ona Oghogho:Wow, those who can see me. My eyes are those who cannot see me. My eyes are like whoa, five years. I just got here. I actually hate that question because I feel like people are always like what next? I'm like is this not enough? No, I have no clue. I'd say this because of the fact that I think most people think that it's been like super strategic and it's like no, I really go where my community tells me they need me and where God guides me to. Right now, I think God is just has me in a season of focus, because every year, I've launched something like I lost Black Pod Collective in 2019, black Pod Festival in 2020, adode Media in 2021. Baby.
Langston Clark :I'm tired.
Ona Oghogho:So the podcast trapper in 2023, I'm like hold on now, wait, jesus. It's one of those things where I think I'm moving into a space of sustainability and focusing on how do we grow these things and not so much on how do we expand our reach. I've expanded my reach to the furthest my arms can go, and now it's how do I ensure that we've gone from wide to going up? And so that's my focus right now is how do I elevate each one of the things that I have birth, and how do I do it in a way to where it doesn't cause burnout for me, because after the conference last year, I don't think I ever understood what burnout was until after that conference, and I just was like you want me to what? Don't talk to me, please. Everybody leaves me alone.
Ona Oghogho:So I want to make sure that I'm sustaining myself, but also the businesses and the brands that I have been able and blessed to launch. So that's my focus right now. Nobody believes me because they're like you're going to get this itch and I'm like there is no itch. Okay, I will put some motion on the next time I get itch, I'll have confidence. So right now, the focus is just how to elevate all of these brands and take them to that next level. And what that next level looks like, I'm still not sure yet.
Briana Barner:I love that. I think that's perfect and I'm excited to see what you have next. And so, to finally wrap up, people usually ask like what's your top five favorite rappers? I want to know what are your top five podcasts.
Ona Oghogho:Why you do that to me At this point. I really only listen to clients' podcasts and I feel like if any client knows that I have a top five of the clients, I could be in trouble.
Briana Barner:Just for fun. See Not client, Not client podcast. Okay.
Ona Oghogho:So I said what I said, which is a Nigerian, like it's two Nigerian women who are based in Nigeria. I absolutely love that show because the fact that it's my reminder that we are literally all living the same lives Whenever they're like telling stories I feel that I send it to my mother to be like this is you, this is you. You do hear yourself? Hey me, no, never. Yes, yes, yes, it's you. I love that show. What's another one?
Ona Oghogho:I barely get to listen to shows for fun MLK tapes. Technically I worked on the show, but it's a past client so I feel like I'm safe. Mlk tapes taught me so much about MLK that I did not know about. I didn't know these tapes existed and it just lets me know, like, how much our educational system just does not tell us certain things and I now for a fact, know that the person who they put in jail for killing him is not who killed him, and like the tapes made it clear as day and like I just found myself like going down a rabbit hole to like research other things, because I was like what else do I know? So that was a really amazing show. It was a limited series so it just had, I think 10 episode arc. Jesus, I wish you told me this ahead of time, because now I'm like oh wait a minute, there's so many, what am I?
Briana Barner:top five OK, or maybe top three OK.
Ona Oghogho:I like I listened to it and, passing, it's another show called the Trail Ahead. They are basically like outdoor activists, so trail runners and, no, I am not an outdoor person in any way shape form, so let's make sure we're all on the same page there. I don't like being hot, I don't like being in the elements. However, it's one of those shows where it's like it teaches you so much about the connection with outdoor activities and like impact to our health, but also the access to outdoor activities. So that's why I say they're outdoor activists, because the fact that I don't think we often think of how, like everybody thinks outside is right there.
Ona Oghogho:What do you mean? The access to outside go outside, but the access to outdoors and how that plays into our mental health, into our children and their developmental needs. And they talk a lot about what that looks like. And it made me think of like, like I was on the swim team and track team in high school and just how that was so different for me versus now that I'm not in high school and I don't even go outside, not less to say you want me to run. So it has had me thinking more about like now I start my mornings with at least walking in the park, those type of things. So I like shows that, like enrich me, teach me something new and kind of forced me to take action in essence.
Briana Barner:I love that. I'm going to subscribe to all of those in like soon. There you go.
Langston Clark :All right. So I know Briana said that she had the last question, but I do have one more. We have some origins as a book club entrepreneurial appetite does, and I was wondering if you could just share a book that you maybe are currently reading or have read that has inspired you on your journey as an entrepreneur in a podcaster.
Ona Oghogho:The sad thing is like I always miss quote the name, but I actually have it on my list of favorite books Build the Damn Thing by Catherine Finney. Absolutely love this book. It is an amazing book. So for anybody who's watching, I'm showing the book on my phone.
Ona Oghogho:Absolutely love that book because the fact that it talks about like leadership and for me, I have a team of 13 people and in corporate America, I manage like teams of 50, but corporate is different than this is your company Because, like corporate, there's an HR, there's all these things.
Ona Oghogho:In your company, you are the HR, so you find yourself being like hmm, what is happening here? What do you want me to do? And so I love how this book talks about like your leadership skills, but also how to invest and grow your business in a way that is sustainable, understanding when your business is not doing well, because that's always a hard thing for us to like really come to terms with and around when I talked about like making the decision to scale down in order to propel forward, this book was very helpful and I remember the moment I got to a specific section and I was like okay, we have to do it. And it just was like, okay, we're doing it. And so, like I said earlier, I like things that forces me to think as well as take action.
Langston Clark :Good, and Briana, my last question for you is can you talk to us about the first book that you will write? I know I threw a scurvy ball at you.
Briana Barner:Go ahead, you got the first book that I will write is one about black podcast. I'm going to be starting work on it right now, but it's taken different forms and like where it is currently now I'm more so interested in experiences of black podcasters. Initially I was interested in just like analyzing different episodes of podcasts, and that'll probably be a portion of it. I'm interested in learning about the experiences of hosts, of producers, and how they see themselves fitting within a larger podcast landscape as specifically as black creatives, and so I'm excited to talk to more than and just kind of get an idea of what their experiences are. And I'm interested also in hearing from like podcast listeners because I think that we don't hear enough about them. Like for a long time it was all black people listening to podcasts like surprised that we listen to podcasts. So I'm interested in hearing about the experiences of how like people find like podcasts and just like what the experience that I'm listening to them as well.
Langston Clark :On a and Briana. Thank you both for joining us for an appetite. I wish you all the best moving forward, and have a good day.
Ona Oghogho:Thank you so much for having.
Langston Clark :Thank you for joining this edition of entrepreneurial appetite. If you like the episode, you can support the show by becoming one of our founding 55 patrons, which gives you access to our live discussions and bonus materials, or you can subscribe to the show. Get us five stars and leave a comment.