Entrepreneurial Appetite
Entrepreneurial Appetite is a series of events dedicated to building community, promoting intellectualism, and supporting Black businesses. This podcast will feature edited versions of Entrepreneurial Appetite’s Black book discussions, including live conversations between a virtual audience, authors, and Black entrepreneurs. In this community, we do not limit what it means to be an intellectual or entrepreneur. We recognize that the sisters and brothers who own and work in beauty salons or barbershops are intellectuals just as much as sisters and brothers who teach and research at universities. This podcast is unique because, as part of this community, you have the opportunity to participate in our monthly book discussion, suggest the book to be discussed, or even lead the conversation between the author and our community of intellectuals and entrepreneurs. For more information about participating in our monthly discussions, please follow Entrepreneurial_ Appetite on Instagram and Twitter. Please consider supporting the show as one of our Founding 55 patrons. For five dollars a month, you can access our live monthly conversations. See the link below:https://www.patreon.com/EA_BookClub
Entrepreneurial Appetite
When Life Calls an Audible: Transitioning Beyond Football with Isaiah 'Juice' Williams and James Cooper
When former football players Isaiah "Juice" Williams and James Cooper share their tales of trials and triumphs, it's not just a stroll down memory lane; it's a masterclass in resilience. This episode peels back the layers of their journey beyond the field, delving into their commitment to mentorship, financial literacy, and the unbreakable bonds forged within the Illinois football brotherhood.
Special guest host James Cooper, a mentor and friend of Isiah "Juice" Williams, joins us to share his insights. Juice, now James' financial advisor and the founder of Audible Wealth Solutions, brings a unique perspective to the conversation. Together, they discuss the transition from student-athlete to career professional and entrepreneur, emphasizing the challenges and opportunities faced during this significant shift.
Transitioning from the adrenaline rush of college sports fame to the uncharted territories of post-athletic life, Williams and Cooper recount personal anecdotes from their time on the field, emphasizing the importance of community and personal growth. The conversation also tackles the crucial role of identity for student-athletes, shedding light on the pressures and expectations that come with the territory. Listeners are invited to reflect on their own experiences with networking and embracing diversity, as our guests highlight the transferable skills honed in the high-stakes arena of collegiate football.
Wrapping up, the dialogue pivots to the philosophies propounded in Simon Sinek's "Leaders Eat Last," drawing parallels between the principles of servant leadership in sports and the corporate sphere. Our episode culminates with a look at the tailored financial services designed for professional athletes, emphasizing the imperative of sound fiscal management in an ever-evolving landscape. This conversation is a testament to the power of perseverance, the importance of preparation, and the potential for new beginnings beyond the game.
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Speaker 1:Once again, this is Dr Langston Clark, one of the three professors of the African Americans in Sport pod class, and also this is a shared recording with my other show, entrepreneurial Appetite, and I'm excited because we have a conversation with Isaiah Juice Williams, who played football at the University of Illinois from 2006 to 2009, if I'm not mistaken, and he's now the president and CEO of Audible Wealth Management.
Speaker 1:I'm also excited because my boy, james Cooper, is here, and those of you who listened to the pod class will remember I think it was one or two years ago James was a guest on a show that we did with South by Southwest EDU, talking about Black student-athletes transition into the workforce, and so it's a pleasure to have him here as the co-host, so he's actually going to be the special guest host. He's going to be facilitating today's conversation. I thought that would be appropriate because James played football at the University of Illinois right before I think Isaiah got there his freshman year, playing football at the University of Illinois as well, and they were both there. I think James was a master's student while Juice was undergrad, and so have a common experience and a common bond, both being football players from the same alma mater. And so, james, I'm going to let you take over and drive the conversation. I appreciate you being here and sharing your experience with us, juice as well. So appreciate you both.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. Thank you, langston, I greatly appreciate that. So it's kind of interesting, right? So when Langston set this up, I'm going to give you back bad matter of fact, let's do this for the sake of this conversation. You want to go by isaiah? You want to go by juice? Either way, you feel like calling me bro? Okay, definitely, it's an important context, right, because langston calls me james. Sometimes he called me coop, right. Most cases you call me coop, right, and I guess I call you a juice, but I never really call you isaiah. So it's unique in that way, before we get bit.
Speaker 2:And I want to do something else too, right, this conversation, langston introduced you via email to me, like as a mentor, and it's kind of weird because I never try to qualify or quantify our relationship in terms of what it is, never even thought about it until this month, right, but I can tell you a couple of weeks ago, right, a passing of a beloved friend of yours.
Speaker 2:You know him a lot more than I did, but I mean he was very close to me just because of the spirit, the relationship, but even a relationship that you and I have, right, and when Langston asked me to invite you to this conversation. I was even protective of you, right? Just because of how often we're exploited as former athletes in these conversations. I want to take an appreciation to the loss of a friend, but then also talk about those other teammates as well that we have lost as well in the past too, and so thank you for your time and really being a part of that, and I'm sorry for the loss. I'm sorry for the loss of Montae's family and in the loss of the Illinois Nation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, that was. I appreciate you saying that. That was definitely tough and I think a lot of us was definitely dealing with that transition and trying to mentally like wrap our heads around that because it came out of nowhere and you know, sometimes you'll, things will come up right and it's like, well, I kind of expected that that makes sense. But with this one was just like, nah, this one is just completely out of left field and no one really expected that to happen. So for that to happen and just be in the dfv area currently, obviously the funeral stuff was here it was like a lot of emotions and bonte was definitely one of my closer friends from the illinois team. You know it's recent as like a you know, the weeks before it happened like we were in conversation just talking about new projects, new things you want to do, trips, trying to rally everyone back together. So, uh, for that to happen was definitely a lot. But yeah, I appreciate you saying that.
Speaker 3:To dig into a little bit what we talked about, yeah, I've never really quantified our relationship either and it was as I was trying to classify guys like yourself, cam buckner, jason davis like just one word for me is just brothers and brothers have different sort of roles depending on you know who you talk to at what time, you know what space you're in in your life, simple as put brothers right. But if you just take it a step further absolutely mentor, friend, coach, all of those things that come along with just being just connected as a fellow alum Like it definitely goes a step further. So yeah, I mean I haven't thought about it up to this point since you asked that. But yeah, probably all of the above for sure.
Speaker 2:And cut fix is important too. So I want to talk about how we got here, right? So Langston's a great friend of mine. He's very fiscal with his dollars, and so he asked me well, he actually called me one day and encouraged me to start investing in Bitcoin. I don't know anything about Bitcoin, and so he was like I was like all right, I got some money. I want to move over, let me talk about finance. So I screenshotted Langston and Messer and said I'm good to go. He's like who is that person? I was like that's Isaiah Williams. He was like well, I think I said Juice Williams, right, and so he was like is that the same Juice Williams I'm thinking of? So I sent odd moment of Langston, right, somebody meeting Juice Williams, right? And it's kind of interesting because, to Langston's point, I went to Illinois from 2001 to 2006,.
Speaker 2:Right, my playing time was 2002 to 2006. And so my first year went to a Rose Bowl, but after that we sucked, right, we sucked so bad they would end up firing our coach and bringing a new coach named Raza. So Raza comes to Illinois 2006, celebrated as one of his decorated recruiter, I think. He had back-to-back great all-American classes at Florida the Tim Tebows, the Chris Leaks he was a part of those prominent names and so on. The inside of the program we were excited about Raza coming on board. Then he brings this guy named Mike Loxley in. That's probably notable as one of the biggest recruiters on the East Coast and up and down the Florida, from Maryland DC down to Florida Pikeland.
Speaker 2:So we started getting excited about the potential of Illinois. Right, we landed with a receiver named Chris Jane, and so the talk inside the program I didn't even know, you know this Joe is the juice. The talk inside of the program was, if we land this guy named Chris James, we can get this guy named Isaiah Williams out of CBS. Right, because they're close friends. And it's crazy because CJ had a college teammate at the same time too, that was really decorated as a quarterback as well.
Speaker 2:And I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but when you think about the hype around a star athlete, we're just coming off a 2004, 2005 National Championship of Basketball with Darrell Williams, dee Brown, luther Head, and then to have a big token name coming in from the city of Chicago by the name of Juice Williams. Everybody inside the program was excited. Now, keep in mind we suck right In times of the class coming in. So to have this excitement to come in to be able to talk about this, it is landing you as this recruit, and so I want to go back to like the excitement that Langston had about hearing that Juice Williams was a person that helped me do best. That was the exact same excitement I had right at the age of 21, 22, hearing that Illinois was going to bring you into the program.
Speaker 3:You know it's still surreal and I still like struggle with like that being the reality of it, because I don't look at it that way. I'm just like, look, I'm just trying to play ball, I'm trying to get out of Chicago, dealing with the harsh realities of being a Southside kid. I'm just trying to escape that. I didn't even consider college at any point in time until I was up with my first offer and, like you said, I was really high and I didn't really think too much of it. But he was the very first scholarship offer that I got and I wasn't even considering college until he walked into my school.
Speaker 3:So I still just kind of thinking back. I still, at the time, was oblivious to all of the other noise was around me, which was probably good at the time. It's a bit surreal to kind of know that I had that level of impact during that time, not only just in Chicagoland or even like in the state borders, and I've gone to different places that are country. It was like, oh yeah, I remember watching playing up at Simon Rose, so I remember all that. So it's still surreal to kind of be mentioned in the same light as some of the other college football greats at the time. So that's pretty incredible.
Speaker 2:That's pretty dope and it talks to a relationship too, because I asked, like, do you want to be called Jus or Isaiah? Right, Because I mean you and I have a deep relationship. We talk about, like the JDs and the cams and the moments that we have sitting down with one another. Right, and so it's like I never really thought about who you meant to me. Right, because even as a part of we're friends right, illinois alum so I'm still a fan, and so it's weird to really have a fanboy or a fan experience with somebody that you know extremely well.
Speaker 3:Right, no, that's a fact, bro. I get it. I get it, man. I get it Because I'm in the same boat right. Obviously, at finance I'm doing we got stuff that we need to handle, firstly on the financial side, but yo I'm still a fan, like I'm a fan of everything you do. So I get it's weird, though, like you say, it's so weird because you got to put that aside and get the job done, but it's like yo it's.
Speaker 2:Tell me about how did growing up, how did you get introduced to sport and how did you specialize? How did you decide on football?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, sports was. For me, sports started early and I think initially it kind of came as like a copycat thing to do, because my older brother is eight years old and I thought the world of my older brother right, and my dad was very much in my life. But my older brother was just like super cool to me To the point I could remember my first fist fight at the age of two. That's when my actual long-term memory start was me getting into a fist fight because of my older brother. It was just like just following in his footsteps. My older brother told me to do this. That led to a fight.
Speaker 3:But for years and years I've always kind of admired my older brother and as he got into high school he started to play football and I just wanted to do everything he did. It went from following him around to the grocery store, going outside playing baseball with his friends, to him playing football in high school. That's something I wanted to do once I became of age. So it initially started as being a copycat to my older brother. But I think when he's three, four, five years old, you're oblivious to your surroundings. I don't know I'm in poverty. I don't know I'm growing up in an illiterate neighborhood or street violence it's a thing, it was just like that's just the way of life. But as you started to wake up a little bit at age eight, nine, 10, it's like well, this is dangerous. It's really a situation where it's like war, like inner city war that's happening around me. So in one of the things with my parents, I've always had this fear of my pops. My pops is 6'4", 280, 290 pounds at a time. There is a level of respect when you have that male force in the house, right, and the last thing I ever wanted to do was just get on his bad side. And he had essentially three rules in his house you go to school, you go to church, you don't mess with gangs. Very simple, very basic. We can have all the fun in the world, but you follow those three rules. There everything would be great.
Speaker 3:But because the environment and the neighborhood that you live in, you're around it every day and I don't care how fearful your parents are, you are always tempted to kind of go in that path because that's what you can see. You spend all this time at school. You're at school eight, nine hours a day. That pressure is there.
Speaker 3:So one of the things for me to kind of help avoid that was just to stay busy, and sports was the outlet. So it was basketball, it was football, it was baseball, it was track, it was volleyball. It was doing all these different things just to avoid having to make a decision where do I spend my free time? Because you have some downtime. As a kid, do you do that? Being outside on the corner hanging with the local gangs, or you're at football practice or basketball practice and you have to go straight home because the streetlights are coming on. So I opted for the latter and that's how I kind of started just staying busy, wanting to be away from the gang violence and inevitably, like I, started to get good at it. You practice anything long enough, you start to get good at a few things. So that's sort of evolution begin there, just staying busy.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. I really appreciate the conversation between the relationship with your brother and your father. It's kind of interesting because even talking about you and I's relationship right and I get, I share a similar experience with CJ too Like. So I met you in college right, let's say, 2006 to 2008, 2009,. Right, when I was in grad school, I was the study hall coordinator for your class, coming in Funniest class by far to this day in my life.
Speaker 2:But after I left, I started working at a college called Olive Harvey College and your brother had to take some additional training for his job, right. And so, at the same time, I'm learning who Isaiah Williams is as a person, because now you and I are connecting outside. We sit down on JD's couch, having conversations, even for the three of us, like we were all in like this professional transition with our jobs, right. And so, as I'm getting a chance to know you, I'm getting a chance to know your brother, but your brother's now teaching me essentially, like, who you are as a person, how you were raised, the relationship with your mom, your pops. So it was very interesting like to have this old, like looking back on it now, this holistic experience of really getting to know you as a person. So now I want to shift the conversation as it relates to what you do professionally, but then going back to your collegiate experience. So I share. During my time, dee Brown was there, so was Dee there, your freshman year.
Speaker 3:So Dee left same with you. He was leaving as I was coming in. Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:And the reason why I bring this up is because I want to talk about the exploitation of sport. But I want to flip it and talk about finance and the work that you do around it, but I want to talk about your relationship to the sport. So, when you look at Dee Brown, dee Brown became the face of college basketball in 2005. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, number one jersey sales. His jersey was in every single bookstore in the city of Chicago, all the way to Illinois. And then two years later, right, illinois goes to the Rose Bowl.
Speaker 2:And then now we have a new face on campus. Who's from Chicago? He's from the south side. You're from the south side, he's from the west side. But now, when we're talking about Nate Higginbottom, you are now one of the biggest athletes in the Big Ten, right? I think going into one year, you're projected to be the Big Ten player of the Year, right? So you're on the face of almost every single publication, magazine, chicago Sun-Times, the Tribune. What was that experience like for you as a sophomore or junior in college?
Speaker 3:Man, it was crazy, bro, like man you're taking me back with all that. It happened so fast, man, and it was just so many moving parts. It was like it was an adrenaline rush, for the sake of you know, just lack of a better term. It was definitely a rush because, again, you just go from just trying to survive and what I described is like kind of just starting to play sports and then beginning years.
Speaker 3:That happened, that reset happens at each level. You go up, right, so obviously you get the high school. You start off from scratch, right, you just go in. You just you're so green, you're bright eye, you're trying to a footing and you find your place somehow. The same transition happened once I got to college. After all the hype and the recruiting stops, it's like all right, where do I fit into this puzzle? I'm not even thinking anything of a superstar Mize or anything like that. I'm not even thinking about being an ex-D Brown football, anything like that. I'm just trying to figure out my footing. But it happened so fast because it goes from me finding my place to boom. You're one of the biggest stars in the city of Chicago, in the state, in the conference, and now you're starting to make my natural attention.
Speaker 3:It happened so quick, bro, it was just like all right. But my personality, my humility, the families just constantly being around I think that's one of the benefits of being so close to my hometown. I have a lot of help managing that and I had a lot of people that just naturally became gatekeepers for for just all the external noise, even like some of the media attention. My mom was always the. That person was to a laugh and joke, but it was just like, son, as fast as you, as quick as you'd gotten this, it could be taken away that quick, right. So always keep that in the back of your head no matter what. So it was like a bunch of different checks and balances to kind of keep that at bay. But it was a lot, man, I think, for any person to receive that level of attention and celebrity so fast, man, it's great and it feels good. But we'll and I'm sure we'll talk about this a little later it could become dangerous too, and that piece of it. I didn't really understand the danger of that level of celebrity, but at the time it just felt good it was. I thought it was amazing that I was the guy that received that attention. I mean it kind of dominoed to where I'm at today, for sure, and it definitely has an impact.
Speaker 3:So when I say like, whichever one you feel like, for a while I used to embrace juice like, like I didn't even feel comfortable, I didn't't even like saying Isaiah for a while. Then it became a period in life where I was just like Isaiah. And this is where JD would tell me like Isaiah, isaiah. But now I'm at the point where it's like, what are you doing? Because both of them are a part of my identity. You don't get one without the other. And he's talking about just like different personas, like they both exist and exists. And, depending on where our connection point is, depending on what people remember me from, if it's juice, great. If it's Isaiah, that's fine too.
Speaker 2:So whichever one, so a couple of things, right. First of all, let's talk about the jucibility, too, right, and even preparing for this, I really thought about who you are as a person. You're a very humble person, right. I've never heard you brag, I've never heard you boast. You love your family. You love your kids, right. You love the work that you do. So I want to celebrate how humble you are, even knowing how big of a celebrity you are at one point.
Speaker 3:So I really appreciate you for that it was hey look, I was just playing the game kawaii. This is like you just play in the backyard and you get good, even though you know you can make some plays. But it was just that, and it was just like I just got lucky, like this could have been someone else doing the exact same thing. So that was more unique. It was right place, right time. God had a plan and I just it could have been someone else. So I would take it as I've never taken it, as I'm better than someone else. You know, as a person I'm better than someone. I didn't get competitive. It was like I'm nice, like I'm still competitive, right, but in terms of me just elevating myself as a human, better than no, absolutely not, bro.
Speaker 2:It's never that. No. And so now the next thing you talk about is, like this transition to identity, right, this guy named Cam Newton gets a lot of flack right, like a buddy of mine who actually coaches high school football, sent me a message saying, like you know, I'm upset with Cam right, it's like he cloud chased and I don't think people truly understand. Right, and, like me, I played at Illinois, so at Harvey Thornton. Right, I was a celebrity. I go back home.
Speaker 2:People still know me that never reached the status that you did.
Speaker 2:But when you think about this whole identity piece and you talk about it, there was a period in time Juice where I never told people I played college football.
Speaker 2:Right, just because it was so much emotions trapped in that persona or that identity and I didn't know if it was the expectations that I felt like I didn't achieve, or it felt like the relationship, or it felt like I was transitioning and moving on.
Speaker 2:But it was hard for me for a very long time to really talk about it and it wasn't until oddly enough, I want to say, I moved to San Antonio, so it was around 2018 and I was doing work around domestic violence and sexual assault, and I did this presentation where I met Langston at the University of Texas at the Black Student Athlete Summit, and I was talking about learning abusive behavior through contact sports, right, in terms of how we navigate that spot, and I don't want to dive into that space, but I really wanted to talk to you about the work that you do currently with student athletes, but I want to talk about your time as well, and so the question that I have for you, right, like in the college playbook for Black male student, this part is not about sport, but rather how do you best exploit the college experience?
Speaker 2:Right, when you go back and you look at your trials and tribulations, you talk about the danger, the successes that you had, what are some experiences that you wish you took advantage of to help you transition to the next level. But for the athletes that you currently work with now, what are some things that you coach them on as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question and I'll start with some things I wish I'd taken a bit more advantage of. And it was the education piece of it, right, like granted we there, we on a football athletic scholarship. So a lot of what we do is contingent upon our success on the field, our identity, how the coaches see us, our place in society. It has everything to do with our performance on the field. So for me in particular, being a quarterback, I'm the face of all of it, so I needed to make sure that I prioritize that. And when you do that, it comes at a cost. Something gives right, and naturally it's going to be the education piece of it. So you do the minimum of what you need to do in the class just to stay eligible, things like that. So if I can do it all over, I would absolutely take advantage of the educational resources, because University of Illinois is no slouch of a college, right, it's no slouch of a university. That institution is arguably one of the best in the Midwest, arguably one of the best in the country. You saw the pill off the college engineering and nursing and things like that. So it's an amazing, amazing institution that I could have taken a better advantage of. So if I could do it all, I would do that, but to your point, it's still as much to gain from the college experience. And just put football aside for a second. This would be a piece of what I talk about as I go back and do the convocation speech this weekend.
Speaker 3:The connection that I make is dealing with fourth and one right Taking the football experience and combining it to the real world. You know, famous game, ohio State 2007,. We beat them, number one team in the country, national, on a national stage. Everyone kind of counts us out. It's the week before they play against Michigan D-game. So, and we're faced with the fourth one, sort of situation in the fourth quarter and a lot of that decision-making not even just decision-making a lot of things within that moment transitioned over connects with life Out of the blue. You're going to be faced with a tough situation, right, and there's going to be things that you got to make instant decisions on.
Speaker 3:A lot of things are happening at once, right, the palms are sweaty, you're in a hostile environment. Everyone is looking to you, whether it's family, friends, your community, your network. You got cameras on you. You got people that's kind of whispering about the decision that you're about to make. They're on board. It may not be public opinions. All that stuff is sort of connected.
Speaker 3:I mean, you talk about having a PhD lesson right right there in a matter of two minutes. Well, that happens for me and it continues to happen all the course of your life. So, from a football perspective and it's as a normal student, right, you're dealing with time management, you're dealing with educational curriculums. You're dealing with having to network and, you know, be open to meeting other people that look different, like all those things happen on a college campus and if you pay attention and you learn from those critical lessons, all that stuff still applies today.
Speaker 3:Everyone I meet and talk to in the DC area don't look like me. We don't have the same story, we don't have the same socioeconomic backgrounds. It's a totally it's life and college teaches you knowledge just from a classroom perspective. You learn all those things just walking around on campus, being out, being in the community and if you're paying attention, those are all critical lessons that you can transition over to life. So, whether we talk about sports, whether we talk about you just being an engineering student, all those things are applicable with life today and it took me a while to really start to connect those dots. Much like you just chimed in on, it took me a minute to start to connect those dots and show how all those things that I've learned over time are relevant today.
Speaker 2:So I want to go back and address your humility. Right, so you spoke about this fourth and one play, but people in the audience, the context, right. So Ohio State, ABC game, the big house right, it's a night game too. Ohio State was they ranked number one in the country that year? What O'Brien? And were we currently ranked? At the time I didn't rank O'Brien, so I'm going to talk to you about my experience. So we had a chance to play them. I forget what year it was Ted Gantz, Antonio Holmes, Malcolm Jacobs this was when they beat Miami in the national championship. No, it wasn't across the 50-yard line right, that's how that was.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you when it was. That was 05, because I remember I texted. I texted to Zook after the game. Afterwards I'm like Zook, that won't happen on my watch. I knew this, so that was. I remember that was 2005, and I played in Columbus.
Speaker 2:And so like the like. So the big house right is a very intimidating place. You go out in the daytime, let's just say four or five o'clock in the afternoon, the sun's still out. You're warming up on the field. The stadium's empty. You see the band coming in, you know. You see the fans slowly trickle in the air right, the warmup is over. You go to the locker and you come out and it's pitch black in the stadium, ali, and like the times just change and you walk out almost like in the middle of the horseshoe, lights flashing, like and it's such an intimidating experience. But you just sprinkled over this fourth and one. It didn't give us any of this context in terms of who did what on the fourth and one right. What happened on the fourth and one? What was the play?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I mean, let's go there in the football. I was trying not to do that, connecting the two alike, but no, it's a lot of moving parts and I think people, from a fan's perspective, I don't think they fully understand this piece of it. Even though they did, I mean, they'll really be fanatics, even more so than what they already are. But you're right, I mean, it's a lot of things you can't even imagine.
Speaker 3:Right, you go, you're warming up, you're two hours before kickoff. Right, like you said, it's 4pm in the fall, the sun is still out a little bit. You just kind of get into your routine. You get into what you're used to, like, what's normal, like you can do this every day. You go out, warm up, you stretch, you do some laps, you do some, you know, you throw a couple passes. You go in the locker room for maybe 15, 20 minutes. Something happens when you go in that locker room. You come back out, like you said, like that stadium gets packed, it gets loud, it gets rowdy, everything that you've been trained to do goes out the window because the elements have changed the sun is down, it's colder, the camera's all out, it's flashing everywhere. So obviously that creates a totally different dynamic. And then obviously the game starts and everything you thought you were just going to do it changes right away, because they came out and scored in two plays Now you're already playing against Goliath and you already kind of got that in the back of your head and they actually come out and execute what you think they were probably going to do anyway. So, all right, you gotta respond to it. And for us we hit them right back in pre-play. So it was kind of like the seesaw effect, back and forth, and anytime you let the underdog believe that they can fight with you. But they probably will. And then that was just our situation. The entire game. I fast forward.
Speaker 3:We get into, you know, this close game. It's fourth down and, granted, they're the number one team in the country in Cougar, and I'm like, look, they're the number one team for a reason. But let's and they gave us an opportunity, let's not give it back. And it's fourth and one in our own territory in a. We should not have gone for it on fourth down. But again to me, let's not give them the opportunity to come back and tie this game up. They gave us the shot, let's not give it back, and it was as simple as that for me and it was a quarterback sneak and a lot of emotions and most people think it's four inches and it's not even four inches. It should be a simple quarterback sneak and it's a dot deal. Not necessarily because it was. It should. It should be a simple quarterback sneak and it's a dot deal. Not necessarily because again they get the ball back at the 25 yard line, they score.
Speaker 3:I'm the one to blame. I can stumble, anything can happen. But you make the decision to do it, we convert, get the first down and we end up milking out a clock out. But so much can go wrong in that moment and you think about all those things before you make the decision to go for it. But that's speaks to the and again life happened with to me in a split second. The way I'm wired, the way I'm geared, like that wasn't a football decision, that happened in the day. That was just me as a person and it's like something is short grabs like that there's opportunity, but you go get it. And that's me growing up in chicago. That's me taking a leap of faith and going to University of Illinois. So many examples of me doing that throughout my life. It actually showed up in that moment and it's kind of worked out in our favor that day, Coach Loxley was he the quarterback's coach?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, coach Loxley, black male, right? Your quarterback coach, you're OC, right? He makes the decision to call a quarterback. Sleep with the back against the wall. What like like? What level of trust does a man? Let's, let's, let's be clear. Coach Lossley is a black man, right, one of the. He was one of the few black officer coordinators in the country at the time, one of the few black head coaches to this day, at this time, and he's decorated as one of the greatest recruiters. But I mean, he's a great coach at the University of Maryland right now. What was that relationship like? And what was it like having a quarterback coach in a black OC? What was that experience like?
Speaker 3:It was good, it was what I needed. I would say that it was what I needed. It's a lot of what a lot of kids from inner cities need too, because that dynamic was intense, he required a lot and accountability was the big right, but it was always fair. It was always fair and at the time it was kind of like, well, you kind of think what coach is picking on me, he's doing this, he's being like overjudgy and all this other stuff. He's demanding excellence. But it was always fair when you kind of look back and think about it.
Speaker 3:But it was exactly what I needed, because Loxie was probably the first guy in my life that started calling me Isaiah the first one, and he kind of helped me identify that sort of persona of maybe being Jews versus Isaiah. He was the first one to do that to me. He was one of the individuals in life that started to kind of teach me about being a man, being accountable, putting the work in, having a work ethic, being strategic and thoughtful. He was one of the first people to do that. Like I said, he gave me exactly what I needed because he wasn't on the juice bandwagon. It was like, look, if you play well, I'll give you your flowers a little bit, but when you do something bad, I'm going to come crashing down on you. I'm not a fan, I'm your coach.
Speaker 3:That was the dynamic that we had. I respect him. We're great, great friends to this day because of that relationship that we had, and that was exactly what I needed. Even more so. He's African-American. He understands my story. We can connect on that level. There's times when we had to get personal and tangible the things that was going on in my own household and he can connect and relate to it and he can deliver the same message in a way that I could receive it at the time. So he was able to crack through to me because's a lot of great coaches out there, coop, but if you can't deliver your messages to the kids, you can't articulate how you feeling in that moment. Well, it means nothing, right, and he was able to do exactly that. So my illusion is a huge testament to the type of coach that he is, the type of man that he is, and I mean it all worked out at the time.
Speaker 2:This next part of it will bring transparency to the space. Right, so I play defensive back and I play running back two positions that are predominantly dominated by black players. Right, so, like you got a white cornerback being drafted right now, taking questions from media asking him, like what does it feel to be the right cornerback? But the interesting thing about it, though, is I think I probably had like seven eight different position coaches during my time at Illinois. Right, none of them were Black. Right, I spent time with Thed for like maybe a couple of weeks or a couple of months, but never played a game under a Black coach. So it's kind of interesting, because Loxley meant so much to you and I celebrate Loxley as this great recruiter so at some point in time, we knew that he was going to transition on, but he ended up having to transition during a peak in a critical part of your career. What was that experience like?
Speaker 3:I just gave him a hard time. Him and Zook was at the funeral a couple weeks ago and I gave him a hard time. Jokingly, I always give him a hard time about that. To the point, zook's first thing to me was Juice, what's up? I'm sorry, it was clear. I'm sorry, right, but we've done what we need to do in life.
Speaker 3:Right now, because the Rose Bowl for you happens, and then the following year, my junior year, easily my most productive season that's when the Heisman Trophy, characters, talk, start player of the year. All that stuff began. Led the Big Ten in every passing category, including interceptions too, but half of them wasn't mine. But leading the passing, leading the touchdowns, rush yards, my most dominant year. And the offseason, going into my senior year, I get you know loxie pulls me to say look, I think I'm taking the head coaching job. Before I can even think football, I'm like no, kind of like, no, dad, don't leave. Like I kind of like that, like, don't leave me. That that was my first reaction and it was a tough one. I understood it as much as I could as a 20 year old male. Right, I understood, I get it, I get the college football carousel, but at the same time it's like, damn, what do I do? Do I leave? I'm eligible now for the draft.
Speaker 3:It's premature, but that's my experience. My experience is what it is because, partly, I got to deal with Loxie every day. He's my champion, he's my coach, he's a mentor for me. If I lose, that piece of it, like a portion of me is leaving too. So now, of course, football-wise, you got to get an office coordinator.
Speaker 3:I got to learn a new system, I got to get to know this guy and I got good cool because I was able to tap into Loxley's brain, meaning like I knew what he wanted to do on the field While he's up in the press box calling plays. We were, we were wanting, like we're walking in the same step because even when you see something different yeah, I have a, I had this play call, but I know what he's trying to get accomplished, because when I see the defense is doing, I can adjust as if he's down here. That's that. I have to build that chemistry with someone else. I took three years to get to this point.
Speaker 3:So it was devastating, man. It was tough to lose them, but at the same time, I get it. You have a family, you have career goals as well and a lot of what your success is contingent upon is 18 to 22 year old kids and so far at illinois it worked out in his favor and opened up a new opportunity for him. So he did what he, what I thought he needed to do at the time and I don't ever hold that against him because that'd be selfish. But uh, it was tough, though. I mean just kind of the collateral damage by him advancing his career.
Speaker 2:That was a tough exit for me and so now we're talking about your junior senior year, right? So talk to us about the emotional transition. So you talked about Lox being the person to help you begin with the identity in terms of Jews to Isaiah and transitioning out. Now talk to us about early stages of your career, once you left college.
Speaker 3:Man, look, I'll be the first to say I mean, if I can give the dark years of my life those to be some of the darkest years that I had, because, much like you described the transition from college to what should have been next, it didn't match up to the reality that I had in my head and you know this. Like you have an idea of what that experience should be like. Even if you talk about the video game, right, it was only one impact at the time. It was only one impact player on NCAA 05. That was you, right, you was the guy with the impact, but one of you, so I know you felt the same way. It's like you're a big time city in the big 10. Your life should go like this NFL played 15, 20 years, make a lot of money, retire at 35, and just kind of be right off in the sunset. Well, when it don't happen that way, you go through this transition that most people not even just athletes, but most people are not ready to accept and deal with, and that happened for me. You talk about being a celebrity the deep round on the football field and jersey sales. People talk about you. You said I connect with Tim Tebow. Most recently he was like dude, I feel like we was in competition. I'm in Florida, you're in Illinois. I'm like that's crazy, because I've been thinking about you. He's thinking about me, right, you go from that level of success and dominance and impact bro to nothing, like I didn't play not one snap in that field. Now I'm doing it and for the last four years I've been starting to pivot my life because that was a possibility for me and that possibility got stronger and stronger the more successful I got in college.
Speaker 3:And when it didn't happen man, it was man. I went into this dark, dark space and I didn't even realize I was there. And you go from what you see right now being fun, being excited, being friendly and just like having a good time of life to the total opposite I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm frustrated, I'm depressed. It wasn't a good space to go, because my identity was all tied to me being a football player and they got stripped away with no transitional period, no lag time. It was like you're this celebrity today. Next month is over and that was a tough pill to swallow. So a lot of guys that I played with Vontae, aurelius Baird, corey, legit, martez all these guys go and have the successful NFL careers that I would have loved to have, and I couldn't even really celebrate them because I was such in a dark space that I couldn't even watch the game. I couldn't be really. I'm happy for you, but I couldn't really show up because I'm not happy for myself. And it was a dark, dark time, man, this is where you and I relationship really kicked because we've always been tight. Like you said, you know study all coordinator. I definitely can't do with the jokes Like you kind of give us coordinator. I definitely would talk to him with the jokes. It was a dope, dynamic man. It was a fun time.
Speaker 3:You definitely added to my college experience, bro, and I remembered that roughly around 2018, 11, 2012, where I was in the valley of that dark space that I was talking about, and I remember reaching out to JD and I'm like man, I just need it. My actual big brother. He's 39. He's got kids with his family. And I'm just like man, I just need a big brother conversation, I need to talk. And he was like yo, come over to the house, I'm going to tell Coop. He was in the city. That conversation I'll never forget it.
Speaker 3:Saturday I had to go watch college football. And that's where we talk about the transition. It made a turn and it went from just kind of going into this dark rabbit hole to us having a conversation about life and you know, just being a professional when you're not on the football field. Without going too far into that conversation, you know, I started to, I snapped out of it and it was very abrupt and it was like all right, what's next? And that's you know, the following dominoes that failed kind of led to me sitting where I am today because of that conversation. That conversation, of course, corrected everything and I'm sitting here because of that conversation. So weird conversation of course corrected everything and I'm sitting here because of that conversation. So weird how it all happened. It's weird how relationships are important, man, and all that stuff. It's a testament to just life. Sometimes It'll be life for, sometimes no.
Speaker 2:I mean that's a good concept. I'm really getting emotional with the story too, because, listen, I still remember that sentence.
Speaker 3:It was needed, man, it was definitely needed. This is the line that kind of broke the ice for me, bro, it had to be. We was just chilling, relaxing, eating food, talking, had a drink. It was like three hours into the conversation and I remember JD just kind of like and I don't know if y'all had this planned or what but JD just like stopped our conversation for a second and said hey, listen, I love you to death and I love you like my brother, brother, but we got a decision to make.
Speaker 3:We can sit, keep talking and you can tell me how politically incorrect the nfl is, how you got cheated and all this other shit. Oh, my back's it. I didn't mean to correct, but all this other stuff. Right, we can sit here and we can out and I will hear you loud and clear and we will keep talking, or you can move on and go on with your life. You got two beautiful kids. They need you. So we can keep talking about this or we can do something about it. You can wake and he said it something like I'm paraphrasing he said something like that and it was like Estelle was like you know what? You're right, the two years that I've been talking about how the NFL is political and all this other stuff and I'm not moving forward, I'm not progressive and, like I said, from that it started the transition and it led to why.
Speaker 2:I ended up there. I remember the jobs that you had in between and, like you, talked about going back to school, so I know the personal finance. The certification exam is hard right, and I don't think people really understand how smart and intelligent we are as athletes because we got to have these dual identity, be it students and athletes, and you talked about the complexities of the offense, having to study, knowing emotions, knowing what's going on in the game, all those different things. You transitioned into finance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, if you think about it, it's the same. It's just like being a quarterback. Finance is all about having a game plan. Right, it's a lot of basic things you want to have in place in terms of having a retirement fund, having some savings, minimizing your debt. Right, you have a basic playbook that you want to incorporate. But, just like in football, why the name of our firm is Audible Wealth Management? Well, you need to be able to call the Audible when something bad happens or when something unexpected takes place. Yes, I want to run the ball outside to the right. Well, they might stack up over there. You better call the Audible and figure out something else. Well, that's finance. Same thing COVID happens, right, and you lose a job, the economy shuts down and if you're an entrepreneur, you own a restaurant business slowdown. That is an audible you better be able to call. So it's still. It's a similar concept. You have both playbooks.
Speaker 3:What is finance or football? You have a few specialty situations. You got specialty teams or you got Bitcoin, like whatever it might be, and it's all strategy implementation. Like, when this happens, you got to be able to adjust to this. When this is going on, you'd be able to adjust to this and you'd be able to speak the different languages with that finance within football. So it's very similar and it's people Like. It's still people, it's still networking, it's still relationships that you've got to be able to attain to make it all harder For that you've got to be able to attain. To make it all harder. For me in football, it's to have your teammates right In this world. It's clients and they trust you to do your job and be effective. It's the same thing on the football field when we talk about finance.
Speaker 2:In full transparency. When you were with Northwestern Mutual, you were my financial guy. No-transcript yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think I always had an entrepreneur spirit, and when I say entrepreneur, I think the autonomy is what I mean by entrepreneurship, right, and I think that, again, that stems from being been a quarterback all those years. I like kind of being in the driver's seat, of being able to at least have the ability to make decisions right. I don't necessarily need to make every decision, but when it comes up, I like the option to be able to make those decisions. And within finance and we work with these large corporations and there's certain restrictions that you can and can't do Typically, when you work for large firms, there are a few products or services that they really, really push, and those services or products they're great for the clients. But not going too deep into finances, it's not everything and certain companies will do really really well at one, two, sometimes three things, but it might be seven other things that are getting neglected Right. So, and for me, I really wanted to make sure that the clients have the option to have a full suite of services, and that doesn't typically exist on at these Wall Street firms. You have to create that. I want to be able to talk investments and talk. You know different styles of investments and life insurance, and I also want to talk about real estate and talk about trust, trust accounts and just everything throughout the landscape of finances, but that don't really exist.
Speaker 3:So I would my team would say, look, what do y'all think about doing this on our own? Let's step away from large corporation and start our own thing, that we can build it back up to be peers with them at some point, but initially let's step away and do our own thing, because our clients deserve that. They need a full suite of everything, not just one or two things. So it started with that basic idea, that basic concept, and it was like look, let's go. It's paperwork, it's credentials, it's fees and all that, all of which we can overcome that. That's just like putting the work in in the summer. You got to put the legwork in to have a successful fall. So it's the same thing. We got to do these initial steps and once we crack through it and we open the doors, then it's no looking back, that's what we can go on your clients.
Speaker 2:I know you're huge in investments. You have a couple of investments. I don't know if you want to Talk to me about the clients. Do you serve professional athletes and do you serve individuals outside of sport as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so both. So I kind of look at it as like two different departments, same concepts, right, but the strategies are a little different. Because how athletes are compensated. I always have a special place for athletes and again, that's his name Audible is named with an athletic theme behind it. I have a certain allegiance to athletes because I mean, you know, you hear the horror stories Athletes going broke got them. Four years of being in the NFL, five years of being in the NBA, beginning to finance, started with solving for that, like being curious about like why is that even a thing? So because I have this special, you know, allegiance to athletes, I'll always carve out a nice portion of my time and energy for athletes.
Speaker 3:That's not the only lane that needs this. Like you, look into our community, I mean, out of every other culture in America, we probably need this stuff the most. Right, you talk about high-network people of different cultures. Well, they don't need it. They want to work with you as a financial advisor, but they don't need you. They got options. Well, a lot of us in our community Southside of Chicago, inner city, baltimore, detroit, philadelphia they need access to this stuff. All right, so I'll always open up opportunity to make sure that the team have capacity to absorb those clients too. And it's a very similar approach. For the most part it's just the numbers. You just change the numbers a little bit. So I mean on a basic level I can throw a 70-yard pass in one walk. Or I could throw a bunch of short routes and still get to the 70 yards.
Speaker 2:So similar concept the era of NIL is a huge thing. You talked about how sporadic, like professional athletes get paid. Are you in the NIL space?
Speaker 3:I am with clients that are still in college and I'm in a space to the degree of. I help the clients manage those funds. So I'm not on the forefront of tracking down NIL deals or anything like that. I can help negotiate them but I don't hunt down different opportunities for clients. But once they do have a contract and they start to see funds coming in from them, I help them manage it, and so, as a matter of fact, can student athletes invest in NIL funds?
Speaker 3:And I know some universities. They're trying to implement different programs that basically automate that portion of it. I'm not a huge fan of automated investments because, again, life happens and the automation that program, it doesn't have any emotional feelings to it. So I know a few universities are trying to do that, but for the most part that money arrives to them in cash or bank accounts, rather, and they need to do something with it.
Speaker 2:So I help them out with that piece of it, they get some large lump sums just straight to their account.
Speaker 3:In most cases, pre-tax. Their financial plan starts the moment. I look at them like, well, is this a pre-tax check, or did they take taxes out? Well, the easiest indication of it is it's just a round number. If you get $50,000 nine times out of ten, that's pre-tax. If it's post-tax, it'll be I don't know $33,800, $32,000, $82,000, something crazy like that. But a lot of guys don't even consider the taxation on that.
Speaker 2:So that's a whole different level of education there, because you ain't talking about adult anymore, you're talking about kids and teenagers.
Speaker 3:Exactly, I mean, because these I mean they ain't go as early as as soon as the seniors are in high school. So the Manning family, I think Arch Manning, I mean, I think he got his first NIL check when he was a senior in high school and I'm talking like a six-figure check. Now he got resources, his family, they got access to stuff. But a lot of these kids in the city, basketball from northeast Miami, you don't know what to do with that. Southside Chicago, southside Chicago, you don't know what to do with that. Southside Chicago, southside Chicago, you don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 2:So I know I would. I appreciate that I want to wrap up the conversation here, so congratulations to you. Right, you will be a commencement speaker at the University of Illinois this summer. Tell us about that experience. What does it mean to you? How do you feel?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's actually this weekend. I'm at the Black Panther Again. You know, they got the robe on, they got the little hat, they got the caps on. It's like, oh, that's pretty dope. That's pretty cool that the university actually come back and speak. I never thought that, not one bit. That wasn't even on my radar as something to do, but just the power again of relationships.
Speaker 3:I was simply back on campus last October and I went over and and I didn't just go to the footballs, uh, to the football stadium, I went over to my old college, liberal arts and science, where I got a degree of communication. And I was just over talking to the department, the leadership department, and they invited me to come back and tell my story of transitioning from student athlete to W, to employee, to business owner. And you know they was really interested to hear my story and once I kind of shared it, they wanted to make sure that their students heard it too. So initially I mean, of course I'm like excited, I'm like just super honored.
Speaker 3:But my second thought was like yo, one where they gonna get a cap to spit this dome. What are you gonna do that at? You're gonna. They expect me. It's like, what am I gonna talk about? Like what can I really tell these kids that's coming from a brilliant university and they already made made it through some of the toughest pieces of of life that they're gonna experience being a college student. So, like, what do you tell them? So that was the next piece of that. So I had to work on a couple of things to get ready for this weekend, but it's pretty amazing, man, I'm excited to do it man.
Speaker 2:So two questions. First question is are they going to be going to drape the alma mater with the number seven jersey again? I don't know that.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure and I'm contemplating. Do I want to bring one back with me just to have on it again? I don't know how it's going to fit. I put them jerseys on the team. I don't know how. The special will be a little too snug. We'll see no clue what the environment is going to be like at all.
Speaker 2:So can you give us like the title of your conversation or the topic which you're going to be talking about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's connecting the fourth and one and it's kind of talking about, you know, giving a brief insight, ones throughout life and that fourth and one is going to constantly happen. And what do you do in that moment? Right, it's tough, decisions have to be made. What do you talk about family? What do you talk about dealing with our loved ones' health, career decisions, relationships Fourth and one will constantly happen. How you prepare yourself will get you ready for when them difficult times come.
Speaker 3:If you just operate and freelance and not really thinking through, being strategic and thoughtful, you can very easily make a bad decision. One and four from one scenarios, right. But if you're prepared and you have a plan and you have discipline and you have a way of thinking away from certain situations, well you'll probably be okay. When you're facing the fourth one, and and it has everything and you connect that and it'll take a special skill set to do it right. It's everything that they're learning in liberal arts and science, with communication. It's networking, it's being able to storytell, public speaking, how to trust the relationships. Everything that they're currently learning is just applying to real life, so just connecting the two different styles of what we want.
Speaker 2:There it is Shout out to the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. All communication major.
Speaker 3:I like to think we're probably the best you know. It's the best you know college on campus man, because everything starts with communication. No matter what you think about. You talk about engineers, a doctor in the ER, a football player it's all communication. Like nonverbal skills, public speaking it's all communication. So if you can do that, man, you can figure out like there it is.
Speaker 2:I'm sure the college of engineering, the college of business, would like to talk about the money they bring in on my side, yeah, man, I mean they, they sponsoring all school right now? I mean so hey, yes, I appreciate you time. I appreciate you as a person, man. We'll pass it back over to the next one.
Speaker 1:Thank, you, james. Thank you for being co-host. I know I I got my voice on. Let me talk in my radio voice before I start hearing your jokes about how I'm trying to talk all smooth. But anyways, isaiah, for the Entrepreneurial Appetite part of this recording. We have history as a book club and I'm wondering if you could share with us maybe a book that you're currently reading, or a book or two that you have read that have inspired your journey as someone who has successfully transitioned from student athlete to employee to entrepreneur.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a couple of books that I've read along the way that I really, really enjoy, and I'll give you one of my favorites there. But I'm actively reading one right now. It's the one that says we do an audible well Each week. We'll have someone do three things. We'll have someone basically give a word of the week, whether it's determination, execution, whatever you want. You'll give a riddle for each day and that kind of wakes everyone's brain up. Today was like if you're running in a race, you pass the person in second place. What position are you in now? Little stuff like that to kind of wake the brain up. Then also, you're responsible for giving a book of the quarter right. So right now we're actively reading the six styles of a working genius.
Speaker 3:That basically talks about how do you get the best out of your team members. Whether you talk about an employee, whether you talk about partner, we talk about whatever your role is. How do you get the best out of that person? And it's not always looking at the job description and making sure that they doing that thing right. Before you can even get to that point, you need to understand what motivates them, what makes them tick, what inspires them, what makes them get going every day. There's going to be times where you know this. I love football, but in certain times I hate to wake up and even think about football. But if I was able to tap into the emotion of why I'm doing this, what inspired me, then it makes getting up that much more easier. So it kind of talks about how you inspire your other you know, team members and colleagues to get the best out of them.
Speaker 3:So the work, the six, the six types of working genes is what I'm actively reading and one of my favorites of all time was sign the senate. Leaders eat last. Leaders eat last by simon senate, and it's pretty much self-explanatory like you, don't jump into leadership or become the general of anything the good ones, at least just to be served, right. The best leaders are there to serve others, right? So yeah, and there's so many different examples that he goes through. Just talk about making sure that he takes care of his people first before he looks out for himself, and those are the greatest leaders. That inspires the followers to kind of be there with you the entire time. So that's a great read as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining this edition of Entrepreneurial Appetite. If you liked the episode, you can support the show by becoming one of our founding 55 patrons, which gives you access to our live discussions and bonus materials, or you can subscribe to the show. Give us five stars and leave a comment. Thanks for watching.