Entrepreneurial Appetite

From Corporate Success to Franchise Ownership: Darren Vanderhall's Journey to Building a Legacy in Entrepreneurship

• Langston Clark • Season 6 • Episode 2

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Have you ever wondered what it takes to transition from a successful corporate career to owning a thriving business in the signage industry? Join us in this episode as we sit down with Darren Vanderhall, a dynamic entrepreneur and proud Aggie from North Carolina A&T, whose journey from Coca-Cola and Lowe’s Home Improvement to Sinorama franchise ownership is both inspiring and instructive. Discover how a fraternity retreat sparked a transformative shift in Darren's career path, leading him to embrace the franchise model's structured support and proven strategies for success. Listen closely as Darren unfolds his story of leveraging corporate project management experience to build a legacy in entrepreneurship, fueled by community connections and familial guidance.

The episode also uncovers the fascinating dynamics of leadership within the franchising world, particularly through the lens of Darren’s experiences as a Sinorama franchise owner. We explore the intricate role of a regional manager and the importance of nurturing relationships within franchise networks. Darren shares valuable insights into building a versatile team by integrating diverse talents, including recent graduates and family members, to tackle real-world business challenges. His story is a testament to the power of practical problem-solving and resilience, offering a refreshing perspective for those drawn to the allure of entrepreneurship.

Lastly, we delve into the profound themes of legacy and entrepreneurial learning. Darren opens up about guiding the next generation, including his son, towards business ownership as a means to bridge economic gaps. He reflects on the significant role of reading in personal and professional growth, drawing wisdom from "The 48 Laws of Power" and balancing it with biblical principles. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on supporting entrepreneurial appetites, fostering community engagement, and the importance of reputation in business. Don’t miss out on the insights shared by Darren Vanderhall and the enriching discussions on nurturing a thriving entrepreneurial spirit.

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Langston Clark:

Hey everyone, thank you again for your support of Entrepreneurial Appetite. Beginning this season, we are inviting our listeners to support the show through our Patreon website. The founding 55 patrons will get live access to our monthly discussions for only $5 a month. Your support will help us hire an intern or freelancer to help with the production of the show. Of course, you can also support us by giving us five stars, leaving a positive comment or sharing the show with a few friends. Thank you for your continued support. What's up everybody?

Langston Clark:

Once again, this is Langston Clark, the founder and organizer of Entrepreneurial Appetite, a series of events dedicated to building community, promoting intellectualism and supporting Black businesses.

Langston Clark:

And today we have a conversation with Darren Vanderhall, who I know as a family friend who actually goes to church with my mom and my dad before he passed away a few years ago, and so I also want to add that he is a fellow Aggie from North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, aggie Pride, and so we have a connection there.

Langston Clark:

I thought it would be great to have Darren come on because I remember years ago I think this was like as you were making the transition from corporate to your own business. I never actually knew what it was at first. But she told you we're going through the transition and actually knew what it was at first. But she told me you we're going through the transition and so I thought it'd be great to have you on the show to kind of talk about your journey as someone who was in corporate America but then decided to step away and do your own things. But first begin with you just sharing your personal journey and development as a professional and as an entrepreneur and how you went from the position you were in to what you're doing now at Signarama, behind the Well, good evening, Langston.

Darren Vanderhall:

Once again, thank you for this opportunity to kind of speak a little bit about my journey. As you say that, I am an Aggie graduate of North Carolina A&T State, Universally grad 91, grad 94,. Spent about 25 years or so after that in corporate America working in project management process improvement, stayed in the North Carolina Greensboro area for a while before transitioning to Charlotte North Carolina area to work for Coca-Cola. Spent about 11 years there and a few years also consulting with Lowe's Home Improvement, once again in project management. And just decided I was actually at a meeting in North Carolina A&T and it was a chapter meeting with my fraternity Kappa LSI, fraternity capital aside, fraternity incorporated. We we do an annual retreat in an effort to kind of show support to the Ali Bradbury brothers and it was there where one of my chapter brothers was opening up a little Caesar's pizza.

Darren Vanderhall:

And so you know, I left that meeting that Sunday and was just thinking that you know, corporate America, I admitted it for a, but it just wasn't being a personal goal, it just wasn't fulfilling to me and I started searching and from there I came across the signage industry and just started doing my research on that and saw that it was a very healthy industry and called a few franchises, decided to go to franchise route.

Darren Vanderhall:

I remember doing this, Langston, this was probably in April, and I was going to turn 50 in November of that year, OE, and just decided excuse me, not OE but 18, and just decided for my birthday, that's what I was going to do. I was going to step out and open a business and I selected the franchise route because I wasn't certain that, especially with signage, that I had enough time to build my own brand. And so I found Sonorama to be a trusted brand and there was others out there, but this seemed to be the better fit for me. Took a tour down in Florida and visited a number of dozen or so, had a dozen or so different Sonoramas, and here I am now going into my seventh year.

Langston Clark:

So talk about the decision to make the transition. What was so unfulfilling about corporate America? Because you had been here 25 years. What was the need for the shift? Did you feel constrained? Did you want to be on a loss? What's the background?

Darren Vanderhall:

I'll tell you a little bit about it. I did feel quite constrained. I didn't feel as if I had the opportunity to grow, someone else controlling that growth, but it was kind of something that did sit well with me, did have a great career, though, at Coca-Cola, and once again I did a lot of travel. I was very blessed though with that opportunity. You know I took care of my family. I had an opportunity to see my son on his way over north Carolina anti-state university as well. A matter of fact, it was his freshman year that I decided to to go into business.

Darren Vanderhall:

You know, just witness, throughout my 25 or so years in corporate America, individuals with who had been there for today 30 year and and perhaps got that tap on the shoulder and said, hey, we're moving in a different direction, and know that wasn't restricted to any race or any demographics. You know I saw that happen across the board, and so just having the opportunity it's always been a dream of mine. Actually, you know I've had a chance really benefits from the exposure of a lot of my family's friends. Folks as part of their circle knew a number of entrepreneurs growing up. I had a chance to work closely with one as well, curtis Richardson of Richardson Safety Equipment, and I just remember, while working with him even though I was doing things like working in the warehouse and pulling orders and going to various expos with him, but just having individuals like him and others pouring to me that spirit of entrepreneurship.

Darren Vanderhall:

And so even early on I had a valet parking business while in high school, something that my father did kind of as a part-time, I think that he said help pay my sister's way through at Howard University and I and I was able to take that same valet parking business into North Carolina A&T.

Darren Vanderhall:

And so while at A&T, doing the Christmas holidays and certain breaks, I had the opportunity to, along with a few friends of mine, to do some valet parking. So once again, just being exposed to another, different class of individuals and you just kind of see how they live with that. But more importantly, it wasn't about the money, it was really about just wanting to change the narrative of my family. I didn't feel, regardless of how successful one may be in corporate America, this is something you just can't hand down to your kids. So having the opportunity to plant that seed and my son and my nieces and cousins or whoever may be watching me was something that was really important to me, something that I communicated at a family reunion several years ago, and I just wanted to be that example to those in my family and other close friends that you two go out there and do something.

Langston Clark:

You mentioned a few things that are interesting. A question that I sometimes ask the entrepreneurs who are on the show are questions around community and talk about what the communities that you have been a part of, how you have leveraged them, maybe for advice, for guidance. You already kind of talked about the inspiration, but I'm in particular, I'm interested in your fraternity, and so there's a stereotype that alphas are the entrepreneurs. I'm not. I'm not Greek, so I don't have insider knowledge or anything like that. I think all entrepreneurs, especially the black ones. Just the trope that I've seen in all interviews is that leaning on a community of other entrepreneurs, whether it be the same business or a different one, has been valuable for them to be able to sustain themselves psychologically, motivation wise, but also get advice about just navigating certain things that come with being an entrepreneur. So could you talk a little bit about you know how you've leveraged your fraternity and your community to support and even your family to support what it is that you're doing.

Darren Vanderhall:

I guess to destroy that myth, it's not all Alphas or entrepreneurs, but obviously some sharp young men and all these group letter organizations and outside of group letter organizations, you know, for me just being able to well, let's just talk about how I've leveraged relationships in college. You know there are individuals who are graduates of North Carolina A&T, who are part of my fraternity, who are in positions to been in positions to bless me honestly, and they've given me opportunities to come in and show exactly what I can do and that's something that's really kind of helped my business grow. I don't know, just witnessing individuals and how they do things throughout in the life. Once again, whether it was Bob Brown of High Point or I, just I don't want to start calling names out, but just have an opportunity, just sit to see individuals not only control their destiny but make a positive impact in the community. Just relationships.

Darren Vanderhall:

I have someone who was over today picking up some product and you know he's approaching that 51 year old age, he's currently in the finance space and and he was talking to me about franchises and his interest and always starting a franchise and, you know, just asked a little bit about what that experience was like and and it seems like once we get at a certain point in life and it seems to be around that 50, 51 year mark that individuals realize that you know there's a ceiling there, there's a glass ceiling there and that, uh, you're hitting your head on that ceiling and if you want to go out and truly fulfill what it is you want in life, you have to take that risk and step out there with a little faith.

Langston Clark:

I also have a question about what it means to be in a franchise. As I said, a lot of the other entrepreneurs that I interview they're trying to do a tech business that's trying to scale and I maybe will ask a question about community and support. And I maybe will ask a question about community and support and they'll talk about some incubator or some tech accelerator that they were part of, where they had to meet venture capitalists and all this. That and the third right, all the popular stuff we hear. But, as I think about it from what I know of franchises which isn't a lot, you have to go a lot of times. The companies will put you through their academy or whatever and they will teach you how the franchise is supposed to go, and I think sometimes we missed it, like that's being in an accelerator or an incubator. They put you through some type of incubation process to run the business effectively. So could you talk a little bit about what that experience was, you actually becoming the owner and the founder of Sinar, the Pineville, north Carolina?

Darren Vanderhall:

Yeah. So my experience involved a three-week training period in Florida with the pairing company. Well, obviously, in that experience, you're understanding that, the process, you're understanding how business is supposed to be run, you're understanding, you know all it is to know about signage. So speak, teach you about marketing, about sales, and they're sharing with your model. That's and that's the purpose of, and that's the value of, being a part of a franchise is that there's already a proven mob. Yeah, silorama has been around, you know, approaching 40 years, and so over that period of time, they they've learned from those mistakes and and and they've, from that, created a model that they share with all of their franchisees and they're frozen constant everything.

Darren Vanderhall:

Now, one of the things I was just sharing with the individual today is that I chose the franchise route because I didn't feel, at age 50, that I had enough time to build my brand and, particularly in the sign industry, to be trusted when I go out and be at all larger projects that I'm capable of executing.

Darren Vanderhall:

That's certainly how I felt nearly seven years ago and, of course, hindsight's, 20-20.

Darren Vanderhall:

You started building a business and now you think, oh, I could have done this, but I still think there were benefits of going through the franchise wrap and I think the biggest thing about that is just once again having a model that you follow, getting some support. Now I have a regional manager. You will periodically stop by and we'll have some conversation, talk about goals and things like that. But you know, once again, after you're out there and all that's holding your hand, you know it's up to you to go out and to grow your business and you have individuals that have different goal levels, so someone may be content with a certain R&D level. There's other signer-rommers who are doing nearly a million a month. So you know they've been out there for a while and those are the ones that motivated me Once again to say, well, if they could do it, certainly I could do it as well, and it's depending on the individual. So it's not like there's a ceiling and particularly in my franchise, you know the limit is up to you.

Langston Clark:

Yeah, so like a tremendous amount of agency and responsibility that you have as being the owner, even though it's under the umbrella or it's franchised under Sanoama.

Langston Clark:

I had a really, really interesting conversation with a mentor years ago and in a lot of ways he was like you, except his transition was out of the military.

Langston Clark:

So he was really entrepreneurial pastor, starting churches, all of that stuff started the black owned coworking space here in San Antonio, and so he's from here, military. All that stuff traveled, and so he had the opportunity to be on certain boards and to meet certain people, and so his whole thing was this is infiltration, so I'm getting an insider's view on how this board works, how that board works, how this company works, how this organization works, and I'm taking that information and I'm bringing it back to you all so that you all understand how things function and how the plays go. Okay, so, thinking back to your time in corporate America, maybe you weren't thinking about being an entrepreneur when you were 30 years old, right, working at Lowe's or for Coca-Cola or whomever it was. But in hindsight, do you see that experience as almost a type of infiltration? And what knowledge and what attitudes, dispositions and skills did you accumulate during your time in corporate that you're now applying to your role with Sinarama.

Darren Vanderhall:

Great boy. I recall doing my early conversations with Sinarama Corporate. Doing my early conversations with with sire rama corporate. They talked about the type of franchisee they've had in the past one who may have had experience producing a sign and they didn't feel that individual was experiencing the level of success that they would have liked to see and them started gravitating towards people who came out of corporate, like myself. So once again, I thought it was a tremendous experience that I brought to the table Project management. For what? So?

Darren Vanderhall:

The business that we're more so gravitating towards is working with contractors and developers. You know we don't do a great deal along with, you know, producing the banners. I'm not the yard sign guy or the banner guy per se. With producing the banners. I'm not the yard sign guy, the banner guy per se. I'm more the individual who's producing ADA signage and wayfinding and directional signage for new construction or renovations and bidding on projects, whether it's the renovation of a sports arena or the building of a new elementary school. So these are the type of projects that we've been blessed to be awarded with, and so by being in project management and understanding how to get an early seat at the table and to talk to those developers and builders, and understanding timelines and how to identify constraints within a project and things like that has been extremely beneficial.

Darren Vanderhall:

My background I was working on my PMP when I decided to step away from corporate America, but I was a certified quality engineer and a Six Sigma black belt, so I brought to the table a quality mindset, and so some of the things that I certainly try to employ within my business are standardizing and processing, even though we adopt a model per se when we get a little more granular with my team in terms of the use of standard forms and procedures and just how we manage information passing through the company. That's a great skill set that I learned at Corporate America that I've been able to bring to the table. It's interesting, though it probably seems to be more challenging employing that with four employees than it was when I was working for you know some of the larger companies that you made, but nonetheless, I think that's been a great benefit and I think clients have benefited from that as well and appreciate that.

Langston Clark:

You know you talked about. You have a team. Now you also mentioned the regional manager. You said that you meet with every now and then and I'm wondering is the regional manager? Are they your employee, or are they regionally over sinorama, or how does that work?

Darren Vanderhall:

yeah, so they have a territory, so they have, they have. They are several franchisees that they, that they call on, that they're, that they're hired to support. Once again, I don't I don't interact with this person a whole lot. If I need something, that's that's my go-to, whatever that may be. But no, they have a region. We periodically have regional meetings and talk about the company goals, how the organization is doing as a whole. Allow other franchisees to kind of share those that choose to best practices and then to start building those types of relationships, to just kind of support one another, those that choose to best practices, and then to start building those types of relationships if this kind of support one another. That's kind of that community piece you're speaking about earlier yeah, yeah, so I'm.

Langston Clark:

This is interesting because you have some folks who work for you as employees and you have support from the larger sign around a corporation. Talk about leading in that sort of like. You're sort of like in the middle of that sandwich. How do you maintain a positive relationship with Sinorama? Well then, how are you also leading the team that you have right now to make your specific franchise be successful?

Darren Vanderhall:

I guess with the franchise, obviously they want to make sure they're getting their royalties and then therefore you're doing well enough companies that are doing good, I think they kind of a little more hands off, and and they, because once again you have one regional manager, you have 20 locations that you're supporting, whatever his number may be, you can only do so much. So we just happen to be fortunate to be growing every year. Yeah, you know, sales are every year, but there's still opportunity to learn and to have some experience. And most of my regional manager, for example, at one point was a franchise owner at a sign company outside of Sao Rama, so he can bring some real world experience to him. And then obviously I'm able to kind of share whatever that may be down to my employees.

Darren Vanderhall:

But you know, I think just I don't see a lot of me transferring information necessarily. I get from him. I'm just having to build my team, I'm having to bring individuals. I just so happen to have a few aggies on the team, a one straight out of college, a graphic. I'm his first career opportunity, his first job opportunity, and so you know, bringing individuals in, helping them understand that there are other activities of the past, I should say, other than what they perhaps went to school for. So I have individuals a young man, kyle, who is. He was doing an amazing job on the graphic design side, but you know we're also exposing him to workshops and to other networking events so you can kind of see how things happen.

Darren Vanderhall:

My son has also joined the team. He came out of the financial institute financial world doing investment banking and now he's had an opportunity to come in. He's doing some project management and really opening up the door for us to build some of these larger projects. Another individual who's my production installer. He came from the sign industry as well and I'm sorry he brought some experience to the table. So we really a small group but we really work well together and and a lot of synergies is going on there. But I I make sure that everyone learns how to do a little bit of everything because we are so small. Everyone answers the phone, everyone can take the information from a client, enter that information into our point of sale system, work on quotes, things of that nature. So that's how we look to build a team each and every day Just everyone growing outside of their comfort space and, at the same time, understanding their potential.

Langston Clark:

I think there's an archetype for entrepreneur in our society that is almost like the mad scientist. And when I say it's like, you want to be like Elon Musk, you want to be like Steve Jobs, you want to be like Bill Gates, these people build companies or are building companies that are changing the way we do stuff in the entire world. They're taking over the world mad scientists, and I think we see that and we see them on New York Times bestselling books with other biographies, all that stuff. But we forget about, like the everyday business that we don't even know is a business. Like you were saying, you got contracts for people building new schools and things like the signage around that.

Langston Clark:

I had no idea that that was an actual business. So when I'm driving past the new schools and stuff around here or the construction that's going up and they got those signs, I thought that that was the government produced those signs and I didn't know that somebody got that contract. When I thought we were gonna have a conversation about sign-a-rama, I thought it was I'm starting a business and I need to sign, but there's signage is more than just the business driving past the McDonald's and you see it on the highway and so talk a little bit about why you chose to do something. That is not the sexy thing, it's every day, it's boring, but you're seeing success in that. Talk a little bit about why that's important for I think, think for a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs, especially black folks.

Darren Vanderhall:

Well, I think you're right. A lot of folks we're taught to go after the sexy thing, just like we're taught to go to school and get the big job title in the corner office. And while that's fine and all education certainly is important, there's so much opportunity out there and most of your successful entrepreneurs, like I said, if you think about it, they focus on solving a problem, simple as that, and whether it was, you know, solving that problem is what led to their level of success. I'm in conversations when there's a new construction going on and there may be some need for, if it's a state-funded project, for example, there's a certain level of minority participation that's expected, and I I hear these larger contracts. I'm talking about some of the big boys. I will call their names because I may be trying to bid on projects with them, but some of their frustration is that they can't not find minorities to do some of these, to even find to ask to bid on a project, certain stuff like roofing, plumbing, hvac, you know, and so but yet they're expected to have at least three bids from a minority supplier in order to meet some participation goals. So there's a lot of opportunity out there that we're just not looking at, yeah, you're talking about.

Darren Vanderhall:

But just to go back to signs, I mean I had no idea all of the things that that I looked at while I would go into a building. Take, for example, a hotel. You go into a hotel, there's there's a sign on every door. It tells you what that door room number is. There's a sign that tells you here's an electrical room, here's a storage room. If something tells you there's a janitor's closet, here's the wayfinding signs that tell you that room 101 to 120 is this direction, 121 to 160 is in that direction. Not to mention just what you see on the outside, that one or two signs that tells you the name of the particular facility.

Darren Vanderhall:

But just so many opportunities. And with signs in particular, there's a few paths. You know you've got the tray show items, for example, the step and repeat are the retractable that I have here behind me to the table throws and skirts and feather flags and things like that. That's certainly one path. I spoke about the path to win kind of more so gravitate. Was it construction? But you know, I just think that no, it's not a sexy career per se, but it's a tremendous opportunity and and I've uncovered so much by being exposed to it I want to talk a little bit more about those glass ceilings and being 50 and realizing that it's not going anywhere.

Darren Vanderhall:

Yeah.

Langston Clark:

I come from a community of professionals who always talk about DEI stuff diversity, equity, inclusion. One of the arguments that people make is that you know, the world doesn't have to be zero sum. There's enough out here for everybody. But in a corporate environment, even in the academic environment where I come from, there's only going to be one dean. There's only going to be one dean at a college where I work at, there's only going to be one president of the university, there's only going to be one provost. And so the reality is that it is zero sum and you might be qualified for the job, but there's all these other people who are also qualified for the job. There's only one person going to get that job.

Langston Clark:

And so talk a little bit more about, or talk to the to the young I don't want to say young the middle aged brother or sister who has done what they're supposed to do in corporate. They got all the certificates. The project management they do the professional development. They meet their metrics every year and they're 45, 50 years old. The project management they do the professional development. They meet their metrics every year and they're 45, 50 years old, but they're not on that C-suite path. They know it by this time, you know it, you're talking a little bit about how you manage that transition and some of the thought process that you go through to actually start thinking about what franchise you're going to choose. Break down that process you would if you were a project manager.

Darren Vanderhall:

Well, I think it begins with a mindset. I don't know that. There are lots of people out there, langston, who know that their career is limited. However, they require some degree of stability, as they believe it to be predictability, and, as a result, they stay in those environments. So I don't know that I have anything magical to tell them. If you have a desire to be more, you first got to have the mindset and the faith and the courage to step out and do it. Yeah, because corporate America is going to do what they're going to give you just enough to say, and you're going to do just enough not to get fired after you've come to a point of frustration where you know you're not going anywhere. Yeah, fired after you've come to a point of frustration where you know you're not going anywhere, yeah, now it becomes what am I?

Darren Vanderhall:

willing to sacrifice? You know, am I, am I willing to take the next three to five years of my life and and maybe have to live a little different than I would be accustomed to living, just so I have the opportunity to go out here and pursue a dream that I had, yeah, and that, and that's the big step. You know that that first step is the biggest step and you know, when I think about my transition to corporate America, you know some say, well, was it difficult for you to leave? Why didn't you maybe try this on a part-time basis and maintain Because I didn't feel like it. If I didn't sort of see to the fight and turn around and burn a ship, I may have gotten back on the ship. So my thing was, I spoke with my wife about it, afraid about it, and you know it didn't happen at the time that I wanted it to happen. It happened on God's time. And I believe that I say to corporate America, as long as I did to learn some things, some do's and don'ts, but when I made up my mind that it was time to walk away from it and give this entrepreneurship journey a try, my mind was made up and I, and I and I.

Darren Vanderhall:

First of all, I had the right spouse. It was Mary Sirpulbife, and that's critical, yeah, that's critical. You know my wife wasn't concerned about. She said, hey, hey, we need to sell this house in order to help you fulfill your dream. And and she and she believed in the journey, she believed in the vision, and that was to create something that those my descendants who I may never lay eyes on, yeah can be motivated from.

Darren Vanderhall:

So so you know to those who are out there, you feel stuck. You have to make a decision. Are you going to stay stuck? Are you going to spend the next three or five years building something and if you fail, you fail. Pick back up and try. You'll learn so much during that failure. I'm in a very good position right now, but I don't know what tomorrow holds. You know I'm in a very good position right now, but I don't know what tomorrow holds. Yeah, but I know I have enough faith in this thing and confidence in what I'm capable of doing, and if this fails, we'll just jump out there and try something else.

Darren Vanderhall:

So many of my friends, fraternity, brothers, family members have been tapped on the shoulder at the most inopportune time and told that we're moving in another direction. So if you want to sit around and wait for that, then you have to make that decision yourself or you have to get out here and just give it a try. The first step is the biggest step. It's a tough step, but it's not an easy journey. I'm not going to say it's an easy journey. I did have some things in place that allowed me to be able just to walk away from corporate America. And I look back on that and I think that my path had been orchestrated since the day I was born and I felt that this was my journey and this was my calling and it wasn't to be in corporate America. And this was my calling and it wasn't to be a corporate man.

Langston Clark:

You mentioned legacy earlier on and you also mentioned that your son now works for Sonorama for you. What was one the conversation like with him when he left finance to come work with you? And talk a little bit about how you see this legacy manifesting Maybe not in just your son, but you know the young brother that you hired to come on like you. May be inspiring him to start his own business. So talk about this legacy part of what you're doing a little bit more.

Darren Vanderhall:

Well with my son. He wanted to come work with me day one. You know he had interned with a major bank for three years. He had an opportunity to see. You know close and personal what it was like being in corporate America, and then went and spent a couple of years out to graduate and he wanted to come day one. And so when he was laid off, he came to me and says all right, dad, now what Can I come to the business now? But I wanted him to go out and experience the paper. I wanted him to go out and see a little bit and, as I told him, go out and learn some pages that you can bring back to the table. And he has but to see him.

Darren Vanderhall:

And when someone asked me, well, Darren, how would you measure success? I said well, I feel like I've already been successful, simply because I'm seeing a mindset change, not only within my son but within nieces and with us, where they're motivated to go out here and own their own business. The young man you spoke about who's part of my team as well. You know I always speak to them about this. You're just passing through here. This is just a cease. You know, I don't expect you to be here forever. You're going to want to go out and do your own things, and so I hope that what I'm doing is motivation to them.

Darren Vanderhall:

Just as I had the opportunity to work closely and to see some entrepreneurs up close and personal when I was a much younger man, I'm hopeful that the courage that I've shown, the perseverance, and I'm hoping some are learning from that and they'll, too, go out and branch out, because I think that's important. I don't think that we can positively impact the economic gap that we, as African Americans, experience unless we get out here and become business owners. I don't think that's important.

Langston Clark:

So the podcast has origins as a book club and I always ask this question to guests to share with the audience, because I think reading is an essential thing to us progressing and continuing to gain knowledge and insight. So can you name a book that you're currently reading, or a book that you have read that has inspired your journey as an entrepreneur, and maybe share some insights or nuggets from that book?

Darren Vanderhall:

a book that I'm currently reading. I'm reading the 48 laws of power right now. Yeah, that that's. That's a ruthless book. You know that that book teaches you probably more so how to, how to navigate a corporate america. It's kind of what I see in there. You know, sometimes there's some parts about that book that's a little tough to read and you know it's telling you to be cutthroat, so to speak. You know. But just other things I've read.

Darren Vanderhall:

The Cash Quadrant is something I love. You read the Cash Quadrant, same author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really talks about and I don't know how much it necessarily hurt for me in the entrepreneurship journey, but it's just kind of well, it really does. In a sense, it talks about the different quadrants of earnings, and if you're on one side of this quadrant, you're more so an employee. If you're on this other side of the quadrant, you're more so a business owner. And so that's one thing I would certainly encourage your listeners to do is that I didn't start reading heavily until probably when I started this business, probably a few years prior to that.

Darren Vanderhall:

Now I'm reading pretty much every night, but I wish I would have started reading earlier. You know, not only build the vocabulary but just to get some insight on how others view the world and have navigated through the world. I've got some, some other readings I've got. Certainly I read slow I will say that I'm a very slow reader but of course I've read the typical books. You know, rich Dad, poor Dad, they Can Grow Rich. The Richest man from Babylon, all these type, the e-myth you know all these books that kind of help in some form or fashion. But even the gospel will tell you a lot about not only life but about business. You know it talks about having multiple streams of income because you never know what's going to happen with one. So I think those are all quite rich.

Langston Clark:

You know, I find myself reading. Whenever I put up the 48 Laws of Power, I always have to read my Bible too at the same time, because you can't. You know it'd be too much, you'd be a little too ruthless with some of that stuff. But it does provide some really good thought experiments. I think, and I think one that's relevant to business, that isn't necessarily a cutthroat, is the one about reputation, about guarding your reputation at all times is one that stands out to me. So thank you for sharing. You're the first person who's ever mentioned the 48 Laws of Power as a book. Mr. Vanderh all, I thank you for joining us here today on Entrepreneur Appetite. It's been an honor and pleasure having you as a guest and I look forward to seeing you in the new year when I come back to visit church and visit my mama.

Darren Vanderhall:

All right. Thanks so much for the opportunity, Lacey.

Langston Clark:

Thank you for joining this edition of Entrepreneurial Appetite. If you liked the episode, you can support the show by becoming one of our founding 55 patrons, which gives you access to our live discussions and bonus materials, or you can subscribe to the show. Give us five stars and leave a comment.